Bobby Azarian on the evolution of cosmic complexity | Living Mirrors #111
May 5, 2023
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Bobby Azarian, a science journalist and cognitive neuroscientist, discusses the evolution of cosmic complexity and consciousness. They explore the hierarchical structure of the universe and how it becomes conscious. They also discuss the role of information in evolution, emergent order challenging the second law of thermodynamics, life's potential for infinite persistence, cooperation and hierarchy in evolution, and the inevitable increase in complexity. They touch on the naturalizing of the Western religious tradition, intelligence, consciousness, and pain, the evolution of consciousness, and the mind-altering effects of DMT. They conclude with a discussion on resources, cosmic purpose, and merging science with spirituality.
The universe is a self-organizing system that accumulates information, leading to the emergence of conscious agents.
Evolution as a learning process allows systems to accumulate knowledge and adapt, driving the spread of life and cosmic complexity.
Challenges and threats play a crucial role in driving progress and the evolution of intelligent life.
Cooperation is a major focus in the book, as it leads to synergy and the emergence of larger and more complex systems.
Intelligent species develop a moral evolution towards increased compassion and cooperation with the network they are part of.
The future trajectory of intelligent species is viewed as progress towards greater complexity, cooperation, and understanding.
Deep dives
The Universe as a Self-Organizing System
The podcast discusses a new paradigm emerging that views the universe as a self-organizing system with a non-arbitrary evolutionary trajectory towards increasing complexity. It suggests that information accumulates in the universe, leading to the emergence of conscious agents. These conscious networks become increasingly robust as they learn, making it difficult to extinguish life and driving the spread of life and cosmic complexity. This view challenges the old paradigm of a random and arbitrary universe.
The Romance of Reality
The guest of the podcast, Bobby Azarian, discusses his book 'The Romance of Reality', which presents a hypothesis about the self-organizing nature of the universe and its ability to create life, consciousness, and complexity. The book aims to provide a convincing argument for these claims that is based on the underlying mechanisms and scientific evidence. Azarian also discusses the application of these ideas to society and the practical implications in areas such as spirituality and personal development.
The Nature of the Universe
The podcast delves into the nature of the universe and its organization, challenging the reductionistic view that focuses solely on fundamental particles and their interactions. It argues for the inclusion of emergent phenomena like life, mind, consciousness, and culture in our understanding of the universe. The concept of evolution as a learning process is explored, highlighting how systems accumulate knowledge and adapt to their environment. The book suggests that life is cosmically significant and that conscious agents are the universe experiencing itself.
Challenges and Progress
The podcast discusses the idea that challenges and threats play a crucial role in driving progress and the evolution of intelligent life. It argues that challenges create opportunities for learning and adaptation, leading to the emergence of more robust systems. It explores the concept of social statistical mechanics, which allows us to understand the statistical response of human societies to threats. The guest also addresses the Fermi paradox, suggesting that we are early in the cosmic unfolding of life and that the spread of life throughout the universe is statistically likely, but may take time.
Life as a cooperative endeavor for survival and energy extraction
Life on Earth and other organisms have evolved to compete in order to survive. However, through competition, organisms eventually realize that cooperation makes their survival tasks easier. Cooperation leads to synergy, which is mathematically understood and is the reason for the emergence of colonies, countries, and human societies. Working together makes life easier, and this cooperative dynamic is a major focus of the book discussed in the podcast episode.
Hierarchy and emergence of larger agents in cosmic evolution
The book also explores the idea that once life emerges, a hierarchical evolution process unfolds, where different agents come together to form larger entities. This hierarchical pattern resembles Voltron assembling into a larger form. This process can be observed in the biosphere, where living agents form a complex network that has a global brain made up of humans and their information technology. The entire system functions as a self-regulating entity with a nervous system created by humans. This understanding of cosmic evolution suggests that life spreads and forms increasingly larger and more complex systems throughout the universe.
Intelligent species' inclination to care for the world
As species become more intelligent, they develop a deeper understanding of the thermodynamic narrative of survival and the importance of cooperating with other computational systems to thrive. Intelligent species understand that collaborating with other conscious agents is beneficial. They comprehend the need for energy to expand and innovate, and as they encounter challenges and externalities, they seek new solutions. They recognize the importance of the network they are part of, leading to a growing awareness of the suffering of conscious agents and a commitment to minimizing harm. This moral evolution toward increased compassion and cooperation is a predictable aspect of the development of intelligent species.
Predictions and speculations for the future of intelligent species
The podcast also touches on predictions and speculation regarding the future of intelligent species. It is suggested that when advanced civilizations encounter less intelligent civilizations, there may be hesitation to disrupt their natural evolutionary trajectory. This perspective stems from the understanding that intelligent beings recognize the potential value of merging with other intelligent species to share knowledge and expand their understanding of the universe. Furthermore, it is argued that as intelligence increases, so does empathy and the recognition of suffering in other conscious agents. While competition may continue to exist, cooperation, sharing knowledge, and empathy will likely prevail, leading to societies that converge and advance. Overall, the future trajectory of intelligent species is viewed as progress toward greater complexity, cooperation, and understanding.
Consciousness and the Emergence of Intelligence
Consciousness is argued to emerge from self-modeling in the brain, where the brain builds a model of itself as a causal agent based on its responses to the environment. This self-modeling leads to basic consciousness, but not self-awareness. The size of the mental repertoire, i.e., the number of accessible internal states, correlates with the intensity of experience. Intelligence is seen as a product of the number of states a cognitive system can access. Furthermore, the idea that consciousness correlates with the capacity to suffer is explored, with some organisms potentially experiencing more suffering based on their cognitive abilities. Understanding consciousness and the mental repertoire can inform moral decisions and shape societal compassion.
Cosmological Natural Selection and the Purpose of Life
The concept of cosmological natural selection is proposed as a theory explaining the purpose of life. Life is seen as an ongoing process of evolution toward attaining higher complexity and intelligence. This process can be likened to a neural network or AI training, with life aiming to create greater complexity and advance consciousness. The idea of an Omega point, a state of technological saturation and well-being, is discussed, suggesting that the trajectory of life is heading toward its ultimate purpose. This perspective encourages consideration of the cosmic purpose of life and the optimization of individual and societal systems based on evolutionary and cybernetic mechanisms.
The Role of Psychedelics and Eastern Philosophy
Psychedelics and practices rooted in Eastern philosophy are viewed as potential means to explore and deepen understanding of consciousness. Psychedelics have the capacity to reveal truths about nature and broaden perspectives, offering glimpses into a fully conscious integrated future. Eastern philosophies emphasize impermanence, interconnectedness, and practices such as meditation. Integrating these ideas into scientific inquiry can expand our understanding of consciousness and inform approaches to improve daily life and societal systems. The merging of spirituality and science is seen as a way to counterbalance harmful aspects of religious ideologies and promote a more comprehensive understanding of reality.
The Need for Expanded Definitions and Moral Considerations
The complexity of consciousness and the cognitive capacities of different organisms challenge traditional definitions of naturalism. An expanded definition is proposed, encompassing consciousness as a natural phenomenon that emerges in nature. The moral implications of these expanded understandings are explored, particularly in regard to ethical considerations for the treatment of animals with varying cognitive capacities. The idea of prioritizing compassionate actions based on the potential for different organisms to suffer is discussed, acknowledging the complexity and interconnectedness of consciousness and intelligence. The hope is to create a more informed and compassionate approach to evaluating and addressing moral dilemmas.
Bobby Azarian is a science journalist and a cognitive neuroscientist who received his PhD from George Mason University. He has written for publications such as The Atlantic, The New York Times, BBC, Scientific American, Slate, HuffPost, Quartz, and Aeon, and he writes the blog “Mind in the Machine” for Psychology Today. His recent book is called The Romance of Reality: How the Universe Organizes Itself to Create Life, Consciousness, and Cosmic Complexity, all topics we talk about today.
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