Lex Fridman Podcast #481 – Norman Ohler: Hitler, Nazis, Drugs, WW2, Blitzkrieg, LSD, MKUltra & CIA
Norman Ohler, a historian and author renowned for his works on the intersections of drugs and history, discusses the role of methamphetamine in Nazi Germany. He reveals how Pervitin was adopted by the Wehrmacht to combat fatigue and the chilling relationship between stimulants and wartime atrocities. Ohler also explores Hitler's bizarre medical regimen, including opioids and cocaine, and delves into the German resistance's creative underground culture. He reflects on how drugs have shaped human history, including his own experiences in Berlin's vibrant club scene.
04:31:21
Berlin-Munich Drug Divide Shaped Politics
- Berlin's 1920s drug culture and Munich's beer-politics polarized Germany into two social minds.
- That cultural split helped explain how Nazism emerged from alcohol-fueled mass rallies while Berlin cultivated experimental drug scenes.
Drugs As A Missing Historical Variable
- Systematic drug use in WWII German military is a missing link historians largely ignored.
- Drug records from archives explain shifts in Hitler's leadership and battlefield decisions over time.
How A Pervitin Pill Started The Book
- Norman's research began after a friend and an antique dealer found old Pervitin tablets in Berlin.
- A single pill test and a professor's archive tip launched his multi-archive investigation into Nazis and drugs.
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Intro
00:00 • 9min
Origins of Pervitin and Weimar Drug Culture
09:01 • 13min
Why Study Hitler's Drug Use? Historiography
22:22 • 12min
Archival Evidence and Military Adoption of Pervitin
34:10 • 31min
Pervitin in Blitzkrieg: Tactics, Atrocities, Logistics
01:05:30 • 31min
Dr. Theodor Morell: Hitler's Physician and Pharmacy
01:36:58 • 26min
Opioids, Cocaine, Doctors' Rivalry, and Hitler's Decline
02:02:44 • 34min
The Bohemians: Inside German Resistance
02:36:50 • 27min
Stoned Sapiens, LSD Origins, and MKUltra
03:04:12 • 1h 5min
Berlin Club Culture and Drugs' Creative Role
04:08:47 • 17min
Meaning, Consciousness, and the Bigger Story
04:26:13 • 4min
Outro
04:30:03 • 1min
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The Bohemians
Norman Ohler
Norman Ohler is a historian and author of “Blitzed: Drugs in the Third Reich,” a book that investigates the role of psychoactive drugs, particularly stimulants such as methamphetamine, in the military history of World War II. It is a book that two legendary historians Ian Kershaw and Antony Beevor give very high praise for its depth of research. Norman also wrote “Tripped: Nazi Germany, the CIA, and the Dawn of the Psychedelic Age”, and he is working on a new book “Stoned Sapiens” looking at the history of human civilization through the lens of drugs.
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Transcript:
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EPISODE LINKS:
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Norman’s YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Norman-Ohler
Norman’s Website: https://www.normanohler.de
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OUTLINE:
(00:00) – Introduction
(01:09) – Sponsors, Comments, and Reflections
(09:00) – Drugs in post-WWI Germany
(19:18) – Nazi rise to power
(23:45) – Hitler’s drug use
(29:37) – Response to historian criticism
(46:16) – Pervitin
(1:00:15) – Blitzkrieg and meth
(1:18:52) – Erwin Rommel (Crystal Fox)
(1:23:02) – Dunkirk
(1:31:06) – Hitler’s drug addiction
(1:47:03) – Methamphetamine
(1:48:57) – Invasion of Soviet Union
(2:07:54) – Cocaine
(2:16:49) – Hitler’s last days
(2:36:48) – German resistance against Nazis
(2:58:59) – Totalitarianism
(3:04:09) – Stoned Sapiens – Drugs in human history
(3:19:20) – Religion
(3:30:09) – LSD, CIA, and MKUltra
(3:55:39) – Writing on drugs
(4:08:40) – Berlin night clubs
(4:19:14) – Greatest book ever written