JS Party: JavaScript, CSS, Web Development

Type War (what is it good for?)

Sep 14, 2023

Rich Harris, creator of Svelte, discusses the decision to remove TypeScript support from the Svelte project and use JS doc annotations instead. They explore the benefits of this approach and touch on the advantages of idiomatic JavaScript. The podcast also delves into the issue of tribalism in programming languages and the negative aspects of Twitter. DHH's critique of TypeScript and the Turbo JavaScript library are also discussed. The hosts mention an upcoming episode on JavaScript security with Ron Paris.

01:10:05

Creator website

Episode guests

Rich Harris

AI Summary

AI Chapters

Episode notes

Podcast summary created with Snipd AI

Quick takeaways

The divide between TypeScript and JavaScript is often more rooted in personal preference and experiences rather than objective analysis.

The controversy around removing TypeScript from libraries showcases the challenge of finding a consensus on its role in library development.

Encouraging respectful discourse and acknowledging the merits of both TypeScript and JavaScript can foster a healthier development community.

Deep dives

Removing types from your own code is misguided behavior

The dispute between TypeScript and JavaScript is rooted in the strong opinion people hold about type-safety in code. TypeScript converts have had the revelation of the benefits of types and find it challenging to go back to JavaScript without them. However, the argument often lacks nuance, leading to a black-and-white view. This binary mindset makes it difficult to have civil discussions about the merits of each approach. While TypeScript can be incredibly helpful for large codebases with multiple contributors, it is not without its drawbacks. TypeScript can sometimes be shackling, adding additional complexity and time spent resolving type issues. Additionally, many web developers have been writing JavaScript without types for years and have built large-scale websites successfully. The divide between TypeScript and JavaScript is often more rooted in personal preference and experiences rather than objective analysis.

Introduction

6min

Removing TypeScript Support and Using JS Doc Annotations

26min

Discussing TypeScript and a Headless CMS

5min

Identity and Tribalism in Programming Languages

8min

The Negative Aspects of Twitter

5min

Discussing a tweet and DHH's takes on TypeScript

2min

The Nuances of Using the Turbo JavaScript Library

18min

Upcoming episode on JavaScript security with Ron Paris

2min

Love it or hate it, TypeScript is here to stay for the foreseeable future. But, what happens when widely adopted packages go completely Type free or remove TypeScript in favor of JS with type annotations? Join us to unpack these recent events with Rich Harris, creator of Svelte, as he walks us through the nuanced decision his team made for the Svelte project, and ofc, lots of laughs along the way.

Join the discussion

Changelog++ members get a bonus 7 minutes at the end of this episode and zero ads. Join today!

Sponsors:

Convex – Convex is a better type of backend — the full-stack TypeScript development platform that lets you replace your database, server functions, and glue code. Get started at convex.dev
Caisy – Caisy is the headless CMS that gives developers endless possibilities. Learn more at caisy.io
Fastly – Our bandwidth partner. Fastly powers fast, secure, and scalable digital experiences. Move beyond your content delivery network to their powerful edge cloud platform. Learn more at fastly.com
Fly.io – The home of Changelog.com — Deploy your apps and databases close to your users. In minutes you can run your Ruby, Go, Node, Deno, Python, or Elixir app (and databases!) all over the world. No ops required. Learn more at fly.io/changelog and check out the speedrun in their docs.

Featuring:

Rich Harris – Twitter, GitHub
Amal Hussein – Twitter, GitHub
Jerod Santo – Mastodon, Twitter, GitHub, LinkedIn

Show Notes:

Alternate Episode Titles

Type me a river
To type or not to type
Someone is typing in the community…
Different types (or not) for different gripes
The script schism
Web Dev D Day
Going off (Type)Script
Losing the (Type)Script
While typing(scripting) it
Not my type
Can’t type this
You fought in the Type Wars?

Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Get the Snipd
podcast app

Unlock the knowledge in podcasts with the podcast player of the future.

AI-powered
podcast player

Listen to all your favourite podcasts with AI-powered features

Discover
highlights

Listen to the best highlights from the podcasts you love and dive into the full episode

Save any
moment

Hear something you like? Tap your headphones to save it with AI-generated key takeaways

Share
& Export

Send highlights to Twitter, WhatsApp or export them to Notion, Readwise & more