Planet Money

What "Made in China" actually means

May 7, 2025

Maureen Thorson, a poet and international trade lawyer, blends art and law to explore the complexities of product origins. She reveals how 'Made in China' can be misleading, with products often having intricate global journeys. The discussion dives into the Substantial Transformation Test that determines a product's real origin, and the perplexing sticky note dilemma highlights the challenges of classification. Thorson illustrates how trade laws are not just legal jargon, but also shaped by philosophical nuances.

27:00

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Maureen Thorson

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Quick takeaways

The country of origin for products in the U.S. is determined by the Substantial Transformation Test, complicating trade classifications significantly.

Maureen Thorson's unique dual role as a poet and trade lawyer showcases the unexpected blend of analytical and creative professions in navigating tariffs.

Deep dives

The Dual Identity of Maureen Thorson

Maureen Thorson balances a unique dual identity as both a poet and an international trade lawyer. While her poetic work involves exploring deep philosophical questions, her legal work focuses on the intricate world of tariffs and trade regulations. She assists companies in navigating the complexities of international trade, particularly concerning how products are categorized based on their country of origin. This duality highlights the unexpected connections between the creative and analytical aspects of her professional life.

Intro

2min

The Complex Identity of Products and Their Origins

2min

The Maze of Country of Origin Labeling

7min

Navigating Substantial Transformation in Trade Law

10min

The Sticky Note Dilemma

6min

Virtually every product brought into the United States must have a so-called "country of origin." Think of it as the official place it comes from. And this is the country that counts for calculating tariffs.

But what does it really mean when something is a "Product of China"? How much of it actually comes from China? And how do customs officials draw the line?

Here in the U.S., the rules are delightfully counterintuitive. A product's country of origin is not necessarily where that product got on the container ship to come here. It's not necessarily where most of its ingredients are from or even where most of the manufacturing happened.

Our system is much stranger. The answers can be surprisingly philosophical — and at times, even poetic.

This episode of Planet Money was produced by James Sneed with help from Sylvie Douglis. It was edited by Jess Jiang, fact-checked by Sierra Juarez, and engineered by Kwesi Lee. Alex Goldmark is our executive producer.

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Planet Money

What "Made in China" actually means

Episode guests

Podcast summary created with Snipd AI

Quick takeaways

Deep dives

The Dual Identity of Maureen Thorson

Challenges of Determining Country of Origin

The Substantial Transformation Test

Remember Everything You Learn from Podcasts