In this conversation, Bobby and Andrew talk to Philip Bess, Professor of Architecture at the University of Notre Dame, about his recent article "Buildings, Polis, Landscape, Cosmos: Two Counter-Cultural Christian Humanist Academic Case Studies” and the basics of classical humanist urban design. Professor Bess introduces Our Lady’s Plan of Chicago 2109, explaining why we will have to move from suburb sprawl to a design that is more sustainable and durable. It so happens that classical humanist design principles best meet those criteria, much better than modernism and hypermodernism do.