Infinite Loops Elle Griffin — Rethinking Ownership and the Future of Work (EP. 287)
Elle Griffin, writer and founder of The Elysian, dives into the concept of participatory capitalism, advocating for a future where ownership is more widely distributed. She argues that broad-based ownership can rebuild the middle class and explains how reputation has become a new form of capital. The conversation highlights innovative policies for employee ownership, the impact of AI and automation, and the necessity of optimistic narratives in storytelling. Griffin emphasizes the power of ownership to boost engagement and reshape workplaces for a better future.
01:38:47
Tax Incentives To Encourage Employee Buyouts
- Use tax incentives to make selling to employees the default exit for founders.
- Offer founders favorable tax treatment to encourage sales to employee ownership instead of PE or foreign buyers.
Pilot With Employee Ownership Trusts
- Start with Employee Ownership Trusts to share profits without ESOP complexity.
- States and individual companies can pilot trusts and expand adoption from local success stories.
One Company Can Seed A New Model
- Single-company experiments can seed entirely different regional economic models over decades.
- Griffin cites Fairchild and Mondragon as examples where one firm catalyzed systemic change.
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Intro
00:00 • 2min
Why Broad-Based Ownership Can Rebuild the Middle Class
02:00 • 6min
Limits of ESOPs and RSUs for Widespread Ownership
07:45 • 4min
Designing More Equitable Equity Structures
11:30 • 3min
Aligning Founder Exits with Employee Ownership
14:45 • 6min
Regulatory and Practical Barriers to Employee Ownership
21:13 • 2min
Practical On‑Ramps: Employee Ownership Trusts and State Experiments
23:21 • 4min
Balancing Risk, Reward, and Founder Incentives
27:04 • 4min
Top Two Policy Moves an 'Ownership Czar' Would Make
30:58 • 3min
Who Becomes an Entrepreneur and How to Encourage Ownership Culture
34:02 • 6min
How Employee Ownership Affects Work Engagement and Productivity
39:47 • 2min
Artificial Intelligence, Automation, and Ownership Futures
41:43 • 8min
Utopian Thinking: State-Level Baby Bonds and Localized Ownership
49:19 • 4min
Migration, Governance Scale, and State Autonomy
53:00 • 6min
Reputation, Symbols, and the New Currency of Belief
59:27 • 11min
Obscurity: Using Gothic Fiction to Explore Reputation
01:10:13 • 3min
The Power of Utopian and Positive Science Fiction
01:13:12 • 10min
From Journalism to Idea‑Driven Writing
01:22:48 • 5min
How to Mobilize More Thinkers and Doers
01:27:23 • 5min
Practical First Steps for Founders Transitioning to Worker Ownership
01:32:32 • 4min
Two Ideas to Incept into the World: Solidarity and Human Effort
01:36:03 • 2min
Outro
01:38:01 • 23sec
#37
• Mentioned in 262 episodes
Frankenstein
Mary Shelley
Written in epistolary form, the novel tells the story of Victor Frankenstein, a brilliant and ambitious scientist who, driven by Enlightenment-era ideas of progress and science, creates a living being from dead body parts.
However, upon seeing the creature come to life, Frankenstein is horrified and abandons it.
The creature, shunned by society due to its appearance, seeks revenge against its creator, leading to a series of tragic events.
The novel explores themes of guilt, loss, and the emotional and moral consequences of scientific hubris, blending elements of Gothic and Romantic literature.
#3542
• Mentioned in 12 episodes
Looking Backward
2000-1887
Edward Bellamy
In 'Looking Backward: 2000-1887', Edward Bellamy presents a vision of a future socialist utopia through the eyes of Julian West, a young Bostonian who falls into a hypnotic sleep in 1887 and awakens in the year 2000.
The novel describes a society where industry is nationally owned, goods are distributed equally, and there is no need for money, police, military, or lawyers.
Bellamy's vision includes advanced technologies such as radio, television, motion pictures, and credit cards.
The novel is a critical examination of 19th-century capitalism and advocates for a society based on equality, cooperation, and the brotherhood of man.
#1084
• Mentioned in 33 episodes
Les misérables
Victor Hugo
Les Misérables is a profound novel that delves into the lives of several characters, particularly Jean Valjean, an ex-convict who seeks redemption after being treated with kindness by a bishop.
The novel critiques the social injustices of 19th-century France, including poverty, extreme social inequality, and a harsh prison system.
It weaves historical events, such as the June Rebellion of 1832, into the narrative and emphasizes the importance of love, compassion, and the inherent dignity of all people.
#112
• Mentioned in 149 episodes
The Beginning of Infinity
Explanations That Transform the World
David Deutsch
In this groundbreaking book, David Deutsch argues that explanations have a fundamental place in the universe and that improving them is the basic regulating principle of all successful human endeavor.
The book takes readers on a journey through various fields of science, history of civilization, art, moral values, and the theory of political institutions.
Deutsch explains how we form new explanations and drop bad ones, and discusses the conditions under which progress, which he argues is potentially boundless, can and cannot happen.
He emphasizes the importance of good explanations, which he defines as those that are 'hard to vary' and have 'reach', and argues that these explanations are central to the Enlightenment way of thinking and to all scientific and philosophical progress.
#517
• Mentioned in 55 episodes
The Lessons of History
Will Durant
Written by Will and Ariel Durant after completing the 10th volume of their 'The Story of Civilization' series, 'The Lessons of History' provides an overview of the themes and lessons observed from human history.
The book examines history from various perspectives including geography, biology, race, character, morals, religion, economics, socialism, government, war, growth and decay, and progress.
The Durants discuss the recurring themes of history, such as the balance between liberty and equality, the role of economics, and the inevitability of human nature's influence on historical events.
They argue that while there are no predictable regularities in the course of civilizations, there are common factors that contribute to their growth and decline.
#11476
• Mentioned in 4 episodes
Herland
Booking
Charlotte Perkins Gilman
Written by Charlotte Perkins Gilman in 1915, 'Herland' is a utopian novel that explores an isolated society of women who reproduce through parthenogenesis.
The story is narrated by Vandyck 'Van' Jennings, a student of sociology, who along with his friends Terry O. Nicholson and Jeff Margrave, discovers this society.
The novel highlights themes of community, feminism, and the importance of social cooperation.
It was first published in serial form in 'The Forerunner' magazine and later as a book in 1979.
'Herland' is part of Gilman's utopian trilogy, preceded by 'Moving the Mountain' and followed by 'With Her in Ourland'.
The book critiques patriarchal societies and presents a vision of a society where women have economic freedom and equal rights.
#417
• Mentioned in 65 episodes
The Count of Monte Cristo
Alexandre Dumas père
#219
• Mentioned in 99 episodes
Das Kapital
Karl Marx
#321
• Mentioned in 78 episodes
A Tale of Two Cities
Julius Julius Seybt
Francisco Manuel GRANADO CASTRO
Marion Leighton
federico alonso
Aedi Abraham
maxi sanchez
jaime arbe
Fred BARNARD
Laura Santamaria
Juan Ramon Torregrosa
monica alonso
Charles Dickens
Alejo García Moreno
Miguel Muñoz
leonardo pablo federico sanchez alonso
J. J. Bernier
Salustiano Masó Simón
Victor G Ambrus
Jose perez
Hablot K. BROWNE
Published in 1859, 'A Tale of Two Cities' by Charles Dickens is a historical novel that contrasts the lives in London and Paris during the late 18th century.
The story revolves around characters such as Charles Darnay, Sydney Carton, and Lucie Manette, each dealing with love, sacrifice, and the profound societal changes brought about by the French Revolution.
The novel critiques both the conditions leading up to the Revolution and the Revolution itself, highlighting themes of resurrection, sacrifice, and the potential for positive change.
Dickens's vivid portrayal of the social disparities and political unrest of the era, along with his iconic opening lines, 'It was the best of times, it was the worst of times,' make the novel a compelling exploration of human resilience and societal issues.
#161
• Mentioned in 124 episodes
The Republic
Plato
#3555
• Mentioned in 12 episodes
20,000 Leagues Under the Sea
Jules Verne
The novel begins in 1866 when ships of various nationalities report sightings of a mysterious sea monster.
Professor Pierre Aronnax, a French marine biologist, his servant Conseil, and Canadian harpooner Ned Land join an expedition to find and destroy the monster.
They discover that the 'monster' is actually a futuristic submarine called the Nautilus, commanded by Captain Nemo.
The story follows their year-long underwater adventures as they visit various oceanic regions, including the Antarctic ice barrier, the Red Sea, and the South Pole.
The novel explores themes of technological innovation, scientific discovery, and Captain Nemo's quest for revenge against terrestrial civilization.
#525
• Mentioned in 54 episodes
Why greatness cannot be planned
Kenneth Stanley
#75596
Obscurity
A Gothic Novel
Elle Griffin
Set amidst the wild palms of 1790s New Orleans, 'Obscurity' follows the widow St. Vincent, who becomes the wealthiest plantation owner in the South after her husband's death.
The novel delves into strange occurrences and the town's obsession with superstitions about her, unraveling secrets and philosophical underpinnings of their pasts.
#29656
• Mentioned in 2 episodes
White Mirror: Stories
Tinkered Thinking
Writer, editor, and founder of The Elysian, Elle Griffin joins me on Infinite Loops to discuss her vision for participatory capitalism, a world where ownership, reputation, and creativity are shared more broadly across society.
We explore the evolution of capitalism from the industrial era to the networked age, how broad-based ownership could rebuild the middle class, why optimism is revolutionary, and how storytelling shapes our collective imagination.
We also discuss how reputation is becoming a new form of capital and how writers can become architects of meaning in a world reshaped by AI and automation. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. For the full transcript, episode takeaways, and bucketloads of other goodies designed to make you go, "Hmm, that's interesting!," check out our Substack.
Important Links:
Show Notes:
- The New GI Bill for Stock Ownership
- Rethinking ESOPs, RSUs, and Equity for All
- The Founder's Dilemma: Risk, Ownership & Exit
- Tax Incentives for Employee Ownership
- A Tale of Two Experiments
- The Ownership Czar for the Day
- The Future of Work
- The State with Baby Bonds
- The Problem with Worth and Deserving
- The Power of Utopian Fiction
- The Currency of Belief and Reputation
- Empress of the World Question
Books and References Mentioned:
- Obscurity; by Elle Griffin
- The Elysian; by Elle Griffin
- The Beginning of Infinity; by David Deutsch
- The Lessons of History; by Will & Ariel Durant
- The History of Civilization; by Will & Ariel Durant
- Why Greatness Can't Be Planned; by Kenneth O. Stanley
- Looking Backward; by Edward Bellamy
- Herland; by Charlotte Perkins Gilman
- Les Misérables; by Victor Hugo
- Frankenstein; by Mary Shelley
- The Republic; by Plato
- Das Kapital; by Karl Marx
- The Count of Monte Cristo; by Alexandre Dumas
- 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea; by Jules Verne
- A Tale of Two Cities; by Charles Dickens
- White Mirror Stories; by Infinite Books