Bernard Henri-Lévy is a renowned French philosopher and public intellectual, while Oleksandra Matviichuk is a human rights lawyer and activist in Ukraine. They discuss the inadequacy of Western responses to authoritarian threats, particularly regarding Ukraine and Israel. The conversation dives into Putin's expansionism, the implications of claims against Israel, and the historical legitimacy of Russia's UN Security Council seat. They emphasize the urgent need for stronger military support for Ukraine and argue against ceasefires that can embolden adversaries.
The ongoing conflicts in Ukraine and Israel represent existential threats from authoritarian regimes, necessitating robust support for their defense and counterattacks.
The failure of international law and institutions to hold aggressors accountable calls for urgent reforms to uphold democratic values and human dignity.
Deep dives
The Rise of Authoritarian Threats
Democratic societies, particularly the United States, face an increasing threat from authoritarian regimes and groups committed to undermining freedom. This so-called 'axis of tyrants' poses a significant danger to nations like Ukraine and Israel, where their sovereignty and existence are under direct assault. Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine is characterized as a brutal campaign to erase Ukrainian identity, with intentions tied to a broader strategy of imperialism aimed at reestablishing Russian dominance. Similarly, Iran's proxies engage in a multi-front war against Israel, marking both regions as battlegrounds for existential conflicts against hostile forces.
Existential Wars of Annihilation
The conflicts faced by Ukraine and Israel are described as existential wars, each fighting attempts at annihilation by Russia and Hamas respectively. In Ukraine, the invasion aims to obliterate not only the nation's sovereignty but also its cultural identity, as depicted by aggressive military actions and propaganda that deems Ukrainians as illegitimate. For Israel, the rhetoric of Hamas embodies a genocidal intent, emphasizing the destruction of the Jewish state rather than the liberation of Palestinians. These two nations, therefore, find themselves united in their fight against totalitarian entities seeking their eradication.
Failures of International Law and Response
The discussion highlights a growing skepticism towards international law and institutions tasked with enforcing it, noting their failure to effectively respond to aggressors like Russia and Iran. The United Nations, particularly with Russia's position on the Security Council, struggles against systemic corruption and the influence of autocratic states. This impotence allows violations of human rights and territorial integrity to occur without accountability, ultimately emboldening further aggression. There is a clear call for reforms in international law to ensure that democratic values and human dignity are upheld, reflecting the urgent need for effective responses to such aggressive acts.
The Path Forward: Capitulatory Demands
In confronting the challenges posed by Russia and Iran, the idea of appeasement is critiqued, suggesting that true peace can only arise from defeating such aggressors rather than negotiating with them. Both Ukraine and Israel require support that allows them not just to defend but to actively counterattack against their enemies. The emphasis is placed on the necessity of a clear stance against allowing aggressors to fortify and regroup without challenge. The conversation ends on the note that a resolution requires the complete capitulation of these adversaries, which is the only viable path to lasting peace and security for both nations.
America and other free nations are threatened by enemies – an axis of tyrants, of aggressors, of authoritarians, of revanchists – all those terms are apt. But the response of Western leaders continues to be woefully inadequate.
The most imminently endangered democratic societies: Ukraine and Israel.
Host Cliff May discusses with Bernard Henri-Lévy and Oleksandra Matviichuk.
Get the Snipd podcast app
Unlock the knowledge in podcasts with the podcast player of the future.
AI-powered podcast player
Listen to all your favourite podcasts with AI-powered features
Discover highlights
Listen to the best highlights from the podcasts you love and dive into the full episode
Save any moment
Hear something you like? Tap your headphones to save it with AI-generated key takeaways
Share & Export
Send highlights to Twitter, WhatsApp or export them to Notion, Readwise & more
AI-powered podcast player
Listen to all your favourite podcasts with AI-powered features
Discover highlights
Listen to the best highlights from the podcasts you love and dive into the full episode