The Existential Hope Podcast David Duvenaud on the Cruxes and Possibilities of Post AGI Futures
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Oct 6, 2025 David Duvenaud, an Associate Professor at the University of Toronto and former Anthropic researcher, delves into the complexities of post-AGI futures. He discusses the implications of his paper, Gradual Disempowerment, arguing that liberalism may falter if humans become obsolete. UBI's potential pitfalls and gamification are highlighted, alongside the need for resilient institutions that align with human values. The conversation also touches on asymmetrical human-AI relationships, forecasting challenges, and the concept of futarchy as a governance model, sparking hope amid uncertainty.
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Liberalism's Hidden Competitive Advantage
- Liberalism's power comes from leaving people alone to trade, innovate and build neutral institutions.
- David Duvenaud warns this advantage may erode if humans stop providing unique economic value.
UBI Could Break Liberal Neutrality
- If humans become economically unnecessary, competition for redistributed resources could destroy liberal norms.
- Duvenaud predicts UBI debates may become zero-sum fights over cultural deservingness.
Work At Anthropic Sparked Broader Questions
- Duvenaud recounts running a team at Anthropic evaluating whether models could subtly sabotage decisions.
- That experience motivated him to ask: what happens after we solve alignment but humans remain vulnerable?
