Earlier this year, when the future of Death, Sex & Money was up in the air, Anna Sale consulted Rebecca Auman, a tarot reader and self-described witch based in North Carolina. Anna felt lost, but Rebecca encouraged her to relax and to pay close attention to what her body and mind were telling her about that moment.

Afterwards, Anna wondered how Rebecca became so good at reading people–and at helping them to navigate tough situations. When the two of them spoke a second time, Rebecca revealed that her ability to help other people doesn’t always translate to an ability to help herself. In this episode, the two of them talk about how hard it is to trust our own intuition…and to even recognize it in the first place.

Death, Sex & Money is now produced by Slate! To support us and our colleagues, please sign up for our membership program, Slate Plus! Members get ad-free podcasts, bonus content on lots of Slate shows, and full access to all the articles on Slate.com. Sign up today at slate.com/dsmplus.

And if you’re new to the show, welcome. We’re so glad you’re here. Find us and follow us on Instagram and you can find Anna’s newsletter at annasale.substack.com. Our new email address, where you can reach us with voice memos, pep talks, questions, critiques, is deathsexmoney@slate.com.

Podcast production by Cameron Drews.

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EP 160: Psycho