Thoughtforms Life Discussion with David Spivak
5 snips
Jun 25, 2025 
In a fascinating discussion, mathematician David Spivak delves into goal-directedness and the intriguing nature of mathematical vs. physical constants. He explores the origins of goals, questioning if they arise from evolution or human design. The conversation shifts to how patterns emerge and guide systems, with thoughts on the dynamic nature of platonic forms. Spivak also examines cognitive tendencies in minimal systems, contemplating how behavior across scales can reveal implicit goals, while pondering the clustering of mathematical constants.
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Goals As Measurable Capacities
- Goals can be treated objectively as what a system is capable of pursuing, not necessarily tied to free will.
- Michael Levin frames goal-size as the largest state a system can represent and work toward experimentally.
Designers Are Part Of Selection History
- David Spivak argues human designers participate in selection and shape artifacts like xenobots.
- Levin agrees but notes novelty often cannot be predicted from the designer's prior history.
Don't Hide Behind 'Emergence'
- Levin rejects the term "emergent" as a catch-all that halts deeper inquiry.
- He prefers probing ordered pattern spaces by making interfaces to reveal systematic behaviors.
