Graham Allison, a renowned political scientist and former dean at Harvard's Kennedy School, is joined by Matthew Colford for a thought-provoking discussion. They delve into the 'Thucydides trap,' exploring how the rising power of China could potentially displace the U.S. Historical parallels are drawn to the Cold War, shedding light on modern tensions. They also examine nationalistic leadership styles and propose the establishment of a White House Council of Historical Advisors to enrich policy-making with insights from history, underscoring the importance of understanding the past to shape the future.
The Thucydides Trap highlights the historical tendency for rising powers like China to provoke fears in ruling powers, potentially leading to conflict.
Applying historical lessons to modern U.S.-China relations can provide valuable insights for policymakers aiming to foster cooperation instead of confrontation.
Deep dives
Understanding the Thucydides Trap
The concept of the Thucydides Trap is central to examining the dynamics of the U.S.-China relationship. It posits that a rising power, like China, will inevitably create fears in a ruling power, such as the United States, leading to heightened tensions that may culminate in conflict. Historical analysis reveals that out of 16 historical instances where a rising power threatened a ruling power over five centuries, 12 resulted in war. This pattern suggests that simply maintaining the status quo in U.S.-China relations could likely lead to repeating the mistakes of the past.
The Economic Power Shift
China’s rapid economic growth and its increasing market dominance highlight a significant shift in global economic power. By analyzing purchasing parity, it is evident that China has become the largest economy in the world, indicating its growing influence over international trade and partnerships. The emergence of major Chinese tech companies like Tencent and Alibaba showcases this economic strength, as they outperform many U.S. counterparts in market capitalization. This economic landscape forces the U.S. to reassess its strategies and accommodate the changing dynamics in global supply and demand.
The Importance of Historical Context
Applying historical context to contemporary international relations is vital in understanding the U.S.-China dynamic. The assertion that a White House Council of Historical Advisors could offer valuable insights into current foreign policy decisions emphasizes the necessity of learning from the past. By studying earlier power conflicts and their resolutions, policymakers may identify strategies to avoid potential escalations and foster a stable international order. This approach suggests that history can act as a guide in addressing modern geopolitical challenges, thereby steering the U.S.-China relationship toward cooperation rather than confrontation.
"When a rising power threatens to displace a ruling power, shit happens." It's true of people, it's true of companies, and it's even more true of countries. It's also the fundamental insight captured by ancient Greek historian Thucydides in his History of The Pelopennesian War. But where he was describing the war between Sparta and Athens, modern historian and political scientist Graham Allison describes how U.S. and China can escape this rising vs. ruling power "Thucydides trap" in his new book, Destined for War. Allison -- advisor on U.S. national security and policy to several secretaries of defense spanning decades -- was former dean of the Kennedy School and most recently Director of Harvard's Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs.
Based on an internal policy series lunch speaker event earlier this year (and moderated by a16z partner Matthew Colford), the conversation touches very briefly on centers of power and creativity; tech in China; North Korea; and finally, the role of applying history -- "applied history", much like the field of engineering could be considered applied physics -- to our thinking about the future. By analyzing the analogs and precedents in the historical record, what clues or insights or lessons might we draw? Because business as usual will produce history as usual argues Allison... but only those of us who fail to study history will repeat it.
Get the Snipd podcast app
Unlock the knowledge in podcasts with the podcast player of the future.
AI-powered podcast player
Listen to all your favourite podcasts with AI-powered features
Discover highlights
Listen to the best highlights from the podcasts you love and dive into the full episode
Save any moment
Hear something you like? Tap your headphones to save it with AI-generated key takeaways
Share & Export
Send highlights to Twitter, WhatsApp or export them to Notion, Readwise & more
AI-powered podcast player
Listen to all your favourite podcasts with AI-powered features
Discover highlights
Listen to the best highlights from the podcasts you love and dive into the full episode