Defence Minister Judith Collins has had frontline access to the war in Ukraine.
She's returned from the war-torn country, visiting sites impacted by Russia's three and a half year long invasion.
Collins met with Ukraine's Defence Minister while there, alongside speaking with the Foreign Minister, the Office of the President, and Deputy Minister of Defence.
She told Mike Hosking it's a difficult situation.
Collin says the Ukrainians are not giving in, but they do want a ceasefire, and they do worry about the people being slaughtered.
The Defence Minister says she saw appalling behaviour from Russia, with war crime after war crime.
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The Mike Hosking Breakfast