The Way Forward Regenerative Conversations

#47 What Needs to Change Now: Breaking Free from the Old System – A Conversation with Otto Scharmer and Katrin Kaufer

May 26, 2025
Otto Scharmer, a Senior Lecturer at MIT and co-author of influential books on transformative change, and Katrin Kaufer, Managing Director of the Presencing Institute, discuss how we can overcome feelings of insignificance to effect systemic change. They explore concepts like 'islands of coherence' and 'fourth-person knowing,' emphasizing the importance of nurturing 'social soil' for meaningful transformations. Their insights illuminate how individual actions, when aligned with intention, can create powerful ripples, empowering communities to drive societal evolution.
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INSIGHT

Illusion Of Insignificance

  • Two-thirds of people feel powerless and believe one person cannot change systems, which Otto and Katrin call the "illusion of insignificance."
  • Overcoming this belief is the first hurdle to collective change and reclaiming agency.
INSIGHT

Interior Condition Drives Change

  • The success of any intervention depends on the interior condition of the intervener and the collective inner place.
  • Deep change requires accessing a collective inner source they call fourth-person knowing.
ANECDOTE

Farm Roots To Social Soil

  • Otto grew up on a regenerative farm where weekly walks taught him that visible harvests depend on hidden soil quality.
  • He applies this metaphor to social systems, saying social outcomes depend on the quality of the "social soil."
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