#187 – Zach Weinersmith on how researching his book turned him from a space optimist into a "space bastard"

May 14, 2024

Zach Weinersmith, the mind behind Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal, dives into the deep complexities of space settlement in this engaging discussion. He shares his transformation from a space optimist to a skeptic, scrutinizing the bleak realities of Martian life, where labor mobility could be non-existent. The conversation also highlights the importance of governance in space, warning of potential exploitation in company towns. Expect a mix of humor and critical insights as they reflect on the profound challenges humanity faces beyond Earth.

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ANECDOTE

SpaceX Revolution

SpaceX's reusable rockets and streamlined design have drastically reduced space travel costs.
This has rekindled dreams of space settlement, last seen in the 1970s.

INSIGHT

X-Risk and Mars

Establishing a self-sustaining Mars colony for X-risk mitigation is impractical.
Building an underground or underwater city on Earth is more feasible.

INSIGHT

Space Resource Economics

Space-based solar and asteroid mining are currently economically unviable.
Earth-based resources are cheaper and easier to access.

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The Great Stagnation

How America Ate All the Low-Hanging Fruit of Modern History, Got Sick, and Will (Eventually) Feel Better

Tyler Cowen

In 'The Great Stagnation,' Tyler Cowen posits that the American economy has enjoyed 'low-hanging fruit' since the seventeenth century, including free land, immigrant labor, and powerful new technologies. However, over the last forty years, these easy resources have disappeared, and the economy has failed to recognize this shift. Cowen argues that this has led to a technological plateau, resulting in stagnant median wages and distorted political discourse. He also discusses the impact of the internet and other computing technologies, which, despite their benefits, have not significantly raised material standards of living. The book offers a critical look at the causes of the 2008 financial crisis and suggests potential solutions, including a greater respect for scientific innovations that benefit humanity as a whole.

A City on Mars

Zach Weinersmith

Kelly Weinersmith

In 'A City on Mars', Kelly and Zach Weinersmith delve into the complexities of space settlement, addressing questions such as the feasibility of having children in space, the governance of space settlements, and the legal implications of space colonization. The book, which includes humorous illustrations and anecdotes, highlights the significant obstacles to becoming a multiplanetary species and challenges the common enthusiasm for space settlement with a realistic and skeptical viewpoint.

The moon is a harsh mistress

Robert A. Heinlein

Accessory to War

The Unspoken Alliance Between Astrophysics and the Military

Avis Lang

Neil deGrasse Tyson

In this book, Neil deGrasse Tyson and Avis Lang explore the historical and ongoing alliance between astrophysics and the military. They discuss how the methods and tools of astrophysics have been used in warfare, from early celestial navigation to modern satellite-enabled warfare. The book spans thousands of years, including examples such as Christopher Columbus' use of lunar eclipses and the use of satellite intelligence during the Gulf War. It emphasizes the two-way street of collaboration between science and the military, influencing each other in significant ways[1][3][4].

The Long Space Age

The Economic Origins of Space Exploration

Alexander MacDonald

The Long Space Age examines the economic history of American space exploration, arguing that private sector involvement is not a new phenomenon but a continuation of historical trends. It traces the development from early 19th-century observatories to modern companies like SpaceX and Blue Origin. The book challenges the dominant narrative that space exploration is primarily a governmental activity, highlighting the significant role of private funding throughout history.

Dark Skies

Space Expansionism, Planetary Geopolitics, and the Ends of Humanity

Daniel Deudney

In 'Dark Skies', Daniel Deudney presents a comprehensive critique of space expansionism, arguing that it poses significant risks to humanity, including the potential for nuclear war and geopolitical instability. He challenges the conventional wisdom that space colonization is a solution to Earth's problems, instead advocating for a focus on Earth's well-being.

Asteroids

Michel Van Pelt

Riding Rockets

Mike Mullane

In *Riding Rockets*, Mike Mullane shares his experiences as a NASA astronaut, offering a candid look at the realities of space travel. The book recounts his training, missions, and personal struggles, providing a unique perspective on the astronaut corps and NASA's bureaucracy. Mullane's story is both entertaining and poignant, reflecting on the triumphs and tragedies of the space shuttle era.

Asteroid Mining 101

Wealth for the New Space Economy

John S. Lewis

Asteroid Mining 101 provides a detailed exploration of the resources available in asteroids and how they can be extracted. The book covers topics such as near-Earth asteroids, meteorites, and the potential for establishing a human presence in space using asteroid resources. It emphasizes the differences between terrestrial and asteroid mining and outlines a vision for expanding human civilization through space resource utilization.

The Deepest Map

The High-Stakes Race to Chart the World's Oceans

Laura Trethewey

The Deepest Map documents the high-stakes race to chart the world's oceans, involving scientists, investors, and private explorers. It delves into the technological advancements, scientific discoveries, and political tensions surrounding this epic project. The book also explores the historical and contemporary aspects of ocean mapping, highlighting figures like Marie Tharp and Victor Vescovo.

To Each According to His Space Need

Ron Ebermanski

John Lair

Soonish

Ten Emerging Technologies That'll Improve and/or Ruin Everything

Zach Weinersmith

Kelly Weinersmith

In 'Soonish', Kelly and Zach Weinersmith delve into transformative technologies like space elevators, robotic construction, and nuclear fusion, discussing their potential benefits and challenges. The book combines humor with thorough research, offering insights into the future of technology and its implications for society.

The Survival of National Constitutions

Ginsburg

Elkins

Melton

"Earth economists, when they measure how bad the potential for exploitation is, they look at things like, how is labour mobility? How much possibility do labourers have otherwise to go somewhere else? Well, if you are on the one company town on Mars, your labour mobility is zero, which has never existed on Earth. Even in your stereotypical West Virginian company town run by immigrant labour, there’s still, by definition, a train out. On Mars, you might not even be in the launch window. And even if there are five other company towns or five other settlements, they’re not necessarily rated to take more humans. They have their own oxygen budget, right?

"And so economists use numbers like these, like labour mobility, as a way to put an equation and estimate the ability of a company to set noncompetitive wages or to set noncompetitive work conditions. And essentially, on Mars you’re setting it to infinity." — Zach Weinersmith

In today’s episode, host Luisa Rodriguez speaks to Zach Weinersmith — the cartoonist behind Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal — about the latest book he wrote with his wife Kelly: A City on Mars: Can We Settle Space, Should We Settle Space, and Have We Really Thought This Through?

Links to learn more, highlights, and full transcript.

They cover:

Why space travel is suddenly getting a lot cheaper and re-igniting enthusiasm around space settlement.
What Zach thinks are the best and worst arguments for settling space.
Zach’s journey from optimistic about space settlement to a self-proclaimed “space bastard” (pessimist).
How little we know about how microgravity and radiation affects even adults, much less the children potentially born in a space settlement.
A rundown of where we could settle in the solar system, and the major drawbacks of even the most promising candidates.
Why digging bunkers or underwater cities on Earth would beat fleeing to Mars in a catastrophe.
How new space settlements could look a lot like old company towns — and whether or not that’s a bad thing.
The current state of space law and how it might set us up for international conflict.
How space cannibalism legal loopholes might work on the International Space Station.
And much more.

Chapters:

Space optimism and space bastards (00:03:04)
Bad arguments for why we should settle space (00:14:01)
Superficially plausible arguments for why we should settle space (00:28:54)
Is settling space even biologically feasible? (00:32:43)
Sex, pregnancy, and child development in space (00:41:41)
Where’s the best space place to settle? (00:55:02)
Creating self-sustaining habitats (01:15:32)
What about AI advances? (01:26:23)
A roadmap for settling space (01:33:45)
Space law (01:37:22)
Space signalling and propaganda (01:51:28)
Space war (02:00:40)
Mining asteroids (02:06:29)
Company towns and communes in space (02:10:55)
Sending digital minds into space (02:26:37)
The most promising space governance models (02:29:07)
The tragedy of the commons (02:35:02)
The tampon bandolier and other bodily functions in space (02:40:14)
Is space cannibalism legal? (02:47:09)
The pregnadrome and other bizarre proposals (02:50:02)
Space sexism (02:58:38)
What excites Zach about the future (03:02:57)

Producer and editor: Keiran Harris
Audio engineering lead: Ben Cordell
Technical editing: Simon Monsour, Milo McGuire, and Dominic Armstrong
Additional content editing: Katy Moore and Luisa Rodriguez
Transcriptions: Katy Moore