Margo is the Product owner for ITIL 4, which has been built using product management techniques, as well as being about product and service management.

We discuss eating our own dog food, using blueprints, journey mapping and personas. We also discuss how there is a real ‘marriage’ or convergence between product and service management, in a way that develops a balanced and sustainable approach to work and business life.

This also leads into how we can develop service management beyond IT – and how we get the (ESM) message across. The discussion also keeps returning to people and the need to hold on to talent. As ever we move to discuss drinking – Margo suggests 2 - a first for the podcast..! A brilliant discussion on the future direction for ITSM.