This week on If/Then, we’re sharing an episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, a podcast hosted by Stanford Graduate School of Business lecturer and friend of the show, Matt Abrahams.

How do you communicate with others when you’re confused yourself? For fellow GSB lecturer Rob Siegel, leadership isn’t about avoiding uncertainty: it’s about embracing the clarity that ambiguity can bring.

In his latest book, “The Systems Leader: Mastering the Cross Pressures That Make or Break Today's Companies,” Siegel explores how leaders today are “living in dualities,” caught between managing existing processes and adapting to emerging disruptions. “The sooner we get comfortable with [change] in the sense of ‘I don't have to like it, but I can deal with it,’ then [we can] lead our teams and give them the calm to know they can get through this.”

On this episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, Siegel and Abrahams explore how to communicate effectively amid constant change. From preparation strategies for spontaneous speaking to building trust through candid conversations, you'll hear practical tips for communicating with clarity when nothing is certain but change.

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If/Then is a podcast from Stanford Graduate School of Business that examines research findings that can help us navigate the complex issues we face in business, leadership, and society. For a full transcript of this episode, visit our podcast’s website.

Chapters:

(00:00:00) Introduction

Kevin Cool previews season three and introduces a featured episode from Think Fast Talk Smart.

(00:00:40) Introduction to Rob Siegel

Matt Abrahams welcomes Rob Siegel and introduces his new book The Systems Leader.

(00:01:34) Teaching in a Time of Chaos

Rob explains how his course on systems leadership evolved amid global uncertainty and AI disruption.

(00:02:39) Frameworks for Modern Leadership

Rob outlines key leadership frameworks, including five cross pressures from his book.

(00:04:01) Communication’s Role in Leadership

They discuss how facts, context, and communication help leaders navigate uncertainty.

(00:06:18) Balancing Innovation and Execution

The conversation turns to managing the tension between creative innovation and operational goals.

(00:08:00) Leading Through Ambiguity

They explore how leaders can embrace ambiguity as a normal, strategic part of leadership.

(00:09:41) Navigating Short- vs Long-Term Thinking

Rob breaks down how leaders balance quarterly goals with long-term planning and vision.

(00:12:32) Strength and Empathy in Leadership

Matt and Rob examine how leaders can balance warmth and strength in team relationships.

(00:16:03) How to Keep Students Engaged

Rob shares his best practices for engaging students through preparation, spontaneity, and challenge.

(00:18:55) Building Trust Through Genuine Care

They reflect on the role of genuine interest in others as a foundation for trust and communication.

(00:21:35) Communication Role Models and Recipes

Rob names Irv Beck as a communicator he admires and shares his top three ingredients for great communication.

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