Call To Action 169: Richard Shotton and MichaelAaron Flicker on hacking the human mind.
Aug 29, 2025
01:03:29
This week we broke a golden rule and crossed podcast streams with a pair of excellent guests, Richard Shotton and MichaelAaron Flicker, hosts of the Behavioural Science for Brands podcast and co-authors of the soon-to-be released (and definitely-to-be brilliant) Hacking The Human Mind.
Richard is, of course, returning for a record third appearance on Call To Action® although we have respectfully honoured his request to not be left alone with Giles. Responsible for opening industry eyes to the potential of behavioural science, Richard is the author of two books that serious marketing types like you and I could not do without – The Choice Factory and The Illusion of Choice.
Alongside him today, as is so often the case, is MichaelAaron Flicker, founder and president of (Zeeenno-Sigh) XenoPsi Ventures, a brand incubator firm that helps out all kinds of companies with financial, marketing and intellectual capital. As well as co-hosting their pod, and co-authoring their book, they’ve completed a hattrick of Co’s by co-founding the Consumer Behaviour Lab, where they apply their considerable collective knowledge to help make marketing smarter, better and less stinky.
In an episode where we open the sunroof on the human mind and reveal there’s much more to it than day dreams, crippling doubt and song lyrics from 1996, we hear from two of the field’s most compelling experts on what it really takes for a brand to be chosen.
This episode is proudly dedicated to Rory Sutherland.
Follow Richard and MichaelAaron on LinkedIn.
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Timestamps
08:27 - Reflections on Career Path and Pivots
10:09 - Richard's Tribute to Ozzy Osbourne
12:39 - How Richard and Michael Met
14:22 - The Concept Behind Their New Book
16:01 - Writing Process and Collaboration Insights
20:21 - Discussion on Haagen-Dazs and Country of Origin Effect
25:04 - The Power of Naming: Patagonian Toothfish vs. Chilean Sea Bass
30:07 - Marketing Confusion Between Marketing and Sales
Their Book Recommendations are:
Alchemy by Rory Sutherland
Tiny Habits by BJ Fogg
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Richard is, of course, returning for a record third appearance on Call To Action® although we have respectfully honoured his request to not be left alone with Giles. Responsible for opening industry eyes to the potential of behavioural science, Richard is the author of two books that serious marketing types like you and I could not do without – The Choice Factory and The Illusion of Choice.
Alongside him today, as is so often the case, is MichaelAaron Flicker, founder and president of (Zeeenno-Sigh) XenoPsi Ventures, a brand incubator firm that helps out all kinds of companies with financial, marketing and intellectual capital. As well as co-hosting their pod, and co-authoring their book, they’ve completed a hattrick of Co’s by co-founding the Consumer Behaviour Lab, where they apply their considerable collective knowledge to help make marketing smarter, better and less stinky.
In an episode where we open the sunroof on the human mind and reveal there’s much more to it than day dreams, crippling doubt and song lyrics from 1996, we hear from two of the field’s most compelling experts on what it really takes for a brand to be chosen.
This episode is proudly dedicated to Rory Sutherland.
Follow Richard and MichaelAaron on LinkedIn.
/////
Timestamps
08:27 - Reflections on Career Path and Pivots
10:09 - Richard's Tribute to Ozzy Osbourne
12:39 - How Richard and Michael Met
14:22 - The Concept Behind Their New Book
16:01 - Writing Process and Collaboration Insights
20:21 - Discussion on Haagen-Dazs and Country of Origin Effect
25:04 - The Power of Naming: Patagonian Toothfish vs. Chilean Sea Bass
30:07 - Marketing Confusion Between Marketing and Sales
Their Book Recommendations are:
Alchemy by Rory Sutherland
Tiny Habits by BJ Fogg
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