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The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
212. Jordan Peterson, God, and Christianity with Word on Fire
Dec 27, 2021
02:05:31
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Quick takeaways
- The book 'Jordan Peterson, God, and Christianity' analyzes Peterson's work from a Christian perspective, highlighting the relevance of biblical stories in contemporary life.
- The Catholic Church has a history of supporting science and faith, with philosophical arguments providing support for belief in God's existence.
- Faith in Jesus Christ as the embodiment of the highest principles and ultimate trust is suggested in the Christian perspective.
- Faith involves embodying the qualities of admirable figures, with Christ being seen as the ultimate embodiment in Christianity.
Deep dives
The Reason Behind Writing the Book
Dr. Caser and Dr. Petrosack co-authored a book analyzing Jordan Peterson's work from a Christian perspective. They were inspired by Peterson's moral reading of scripture and his integration of various resources into his lectures. They aimed to bring out the resonances between Peterson's insights and those of earlier Christian thinkers, demonstrating the relevance of biblical stories in navigating contemporary life.
The Relationship Between Science and Religion
Contrary to popular belief, the Catholic Church has never been opposed to science. Many renowned scientists throughout history, such as Newton and Mendel, were faithful believers. The Catholic Church itself has supported scientific research and dialogue. Moreover, faith and science are not fundamentally at odds. Rather, faith in God can be seen as a reasonable stance, with philosophical arguments like the cosmological and fine-tuning arguments providing support for belief in God's existence.
The Role of Faith in Human Existence
Faith is an essential aspect of human existence, as we constantly step into the unknown and make decisions based on incomplete evidence. It is impossible to act without faith, which involves making assumptions about what constitutes value and trusting that our actions will lead to desired outcomes. The question then becomes, what should we have faith in? This is where the Christian perspective suggests having faith in Jesus Christ as the embodiment of the highest principles and the source of ultimate trust.
The Connection Between Faith and Imitation
Imitating admirable figures and embodying their qualities is an inherent aspect of human development. Children observe and extract admirable attributes from their parents and others, incorporating them into their own behaviors. Similarly, faith involves a willingness to act out what we find admirable. In Christianity, Christ is seen as the ultimate embodiment of what is admirable, and having faith in Christ means embodying his qualities and imitating his actions as the most appropriate guide for human conduct.
The significance of faith and the role of grace
Faith goes beyond mere propositional components and involves acting according to a belief or intuition. The Christian perspective emphasizes the importance of realizing the pattern of moral truth and goodness embedded in creation. Sin and human brokenness make it impossible for individuals to achieve the desired outcome through their own efforts. Jesus Christ serves not only as a teacher but also as a savior who brings meaning and belief. Striving to be good is driven by love for God and recognition of His love for us.
The importance of grace and living faith
Christianity without grace is incomplete. Grace is the transformative power that enlivens faith and enables charity. Living faith is infused with charity, and it allows God's love to work through us, leading to a deep connection with Him. Striving to be good is motivated by love for God, not merely by duty. The relationship between faith and reason is harmonious, with God being the source of both. A living faith requires maintaining that connection with God, preserving our relationship and enabling the expression of His love to others.
The compatibility of Genesis and evolution
The interpretation of Genesis in Catholic tradition recognizes the importance of understanding its context. While there are varied interpretations, Genesis is not attempting to provide a scientific account but instead imparts important truths. It conveys the unity of the human family and the inherent dignity of all people, establishing the basis for human rights. The story communicates significance beyond scientific explanations, encouraging respect and love for every individual.
The interplay of faith, reason, and meaning
Existential doubts and nihilistic despair can be powerfully destructive. Embracing faith and reason in harmony offers protection against the devastating impact of untrammeled rationality. Faith provides a framework for meaning and purpose in life, while reason helps to understand and articulate the truth. Love, courage, and fidelity to truth are essential aspects of this interplay, calling individuals to strive for a higher mode of action and contributing to a life of meaning and happiness.
This episode was recorded on September 6, 2021.
Dr. Christopher Kaczor, Dr. Matthew Petrusek, and I discuss their new book “Jordan Peterson, God, and Christianity”—the first systematic analysis of 12 Rules for Life and my biblical series from a Christian perspective. We also cover—just to name a few—truth in fiction, time before consciousness, faith, evolution, love, and acting as if God exists.
Dr. Christopher Kaczor is a Professor of Philosophy at Loyola Marymount University. He was appointed a Corresponding Member of the Pontifical Academy for Life of Vatican City, is a fellow of the Word on Fire Institute, and won a Templeton Grant for his work. He has written many scholarly articles and books.
Dr. Matthew R. Petrusek is an associate professor at Loyola Marymount University in LA. He holds an MA from Yale and a PhD from the University of Chicago. Dr. Petrusek specializes in Christian ethics and moral theology and lectures on a range of topics surrounding philosophy, theology, and Catholicism.
Find more Dr. Christopher Kaczor on Twitter @Prof_Kaczor:
https://twitter.com/prof_kaczor
And more Dr. Matthew Petrusek @MattPetrusek:
https://twitter.com/MattPetrusek
Get their book at
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B095J3SB9M/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_tkin_p1_i0
[00:00] Intro
[02:26] The motivation behind "Jordan Peterson, God, and Christianity"
[09:34] Genesis, the literal sense in scripture and the truth in fiction
[10:21] "The Atheist types miss that fiction isn't false" Jordan Peterson
[11:45] "A story that can change your life has a power that is best described as religious" JP
[12:23] Truth in fiction and religious text
[14:00] "I think truth is broader [than the empirically verifiable]"
[18:44] The problem with the empirical approach and replacing God
[22:07] "[When] Ceasar becomes inflated to God, all hell breaks loose" JP
[22:35] "If we don't segregate off the religious instinct and give it its proper attention, [everything] starts becoming inappropriately contaminated with religious longing. That's why you see [division and] the rise in powerful political ideologies" JP
[23:32] On the perversion of the religious instinct
[25:41] The Bible's warning in Noah and the tower of Babel
[30:43] Time before consciousness
[36:43] "Matter at the quantum level makes it difficult to think of a universe without conscious observers" JP
[40:45] Are science and religion at odds?
[44:00] Dr. Petrusek on science/religion
[46:31] On Faith
[54:52] Imitating the spirit of the Father
[54:56] "You can conceptualize Christ as the representation of all things admirable." JP
[57:53] "Faith is the willingness to act that out in the world" JP
[01:00:27] Why we must strive to be good
[01:01:12] "I am loved and I wish to love, and I recognize that I will fail time and time again" Matthew Petrusek
[01:05:26] Evolution and religion
[01:11:09] The creation of the universe
[01:11:36] The church and Dr. Peterson's popularity
[01:15:41] "Faith cannot oppose reason" MP
[01:16:48] The challenge of drawing younger people to church
[01:33:31] Acting as if God exists
[01:36:37] "Your life isn’t about you and your own thoughts" MP
[01:39::46] "When people fall in love with one another, they see the perfection that could conceivably exist. It's like the curtains of illusion pull apart momentarily, and you see the paradisal state that could be there" JP
[01:40:10] God's love and the love between a parent and a child
[01:43:07] How to treat those we love
[01:43:29] "The more love you view other people with, the higher the moral demand that’s placed on you" JP
[01:44:25] “I think there’s too much moral authority in the church" JP
[01:43:39] The ten commandments; the moral load of sin
[01:49:25] Understanding hell
[01:55:22] More on Word on Fire
[01:58:04] The Exodus lectures
#Christianity #Evolution #Meaning #God #Faith
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