Competing Internationalisms: Samuel Hirst on Soviet-Turkish Interwar Relations, Statist Internationalism and Rejecting the Liberal Order

In this episode of the Review of Democracy podcast, Alexandra Medzibrodszky interviews Samuel Hirst on his new book, Against the Liberal Order, the Soviet Union, Turkey and Statist Internationalism from 1919 to 1939. The book examines the collaboration between early Republican Turkey and the Soviet Union during the interwar period, exploring the diplomatic, economic, cultural and international dimensions of their relationship. Hirst highlights how both Bolsheviks and Kemalists shared a strong opposition to the Western-led liberal order, positioning themselves as key challengers to it after the First World War. The partnership was marked by anti-imperialist rhetoric and state-led exchanges, including Soviet support for Turkey’s industrialization efforts. Hirst argues that, despite ideological differences, the relationship evolved into a statist alternative to liberal internationalism—a dynamic often overlooked in historical accounts.

Hirst’s work provides a case study of how peripheral states and societies navigated the interwar liberal order, enriching our understanding of competing internationalisms. The Turkish-Soviet relationship exemplifies cooperation in areas like economy, industry and disarmament, demonstrating both nations’ commitment to bilateralism and rejection of the Paris order. Both countries viewed foreign investment as a threat to sovereignty and political independence, reflecting a complex relationship with the West. For Turkey and the Soviet Union alike, Western engagement offered opportunities for modernization and economic development but was tempered by concerns over external influence infringing upon their autonomy.

The history of Soviet-Turkish relations in the interwar period serves as a compelling case within the broader international history of competing internationalisms. The shared commitment of the Bolsheviks and the Kemalists to statist internationalism underscores the variety of international relations frameworks that emerged in response to Western dominance. Today, as alternative models of governance and international relations gain attention once again, the Soviet-Turkish experience offers valuable insights into how states have historically navigated and contested global orders.