The Un-Diplomatic Podcast The Rupture of the “Rules-Based International Order” w/ Seva Gunitsky | Ep. 281
Jan 23, 2026
Seva Gunitsky, a political scientist from the University of Toronto and author of the Hegemon newsletter, shares his insights on Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney's groundbreaking speech at the World Economic Forum. They dissect the implications of America's waning hegemony and explore various interpretations of realism in international relations. The conversation delves into the challenges of the 'rules-based international order,' the risks of militarization, and the role of middle powers in shaping future political dynamics.
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Leaving Before Things Collapse
- Seva recounts his trajectory from the USSR to the U.S. and then to Canada, joking that he leaves places 'just before everything falls apart.'
- He uses this pattern to underscore a skeptical, historically informed perspective on great-power shifts.
Acknowledging The Order's Hypocrisy
- Carney openly names the 'rules-based international order' as partly a lie and calls the current moment a rupture, not a transition.
- Van Jackson sees that acknowledgement from a wealthy country's leader as historically significant and rare.
The Green Grocer Metaphor
- Carney borrows Václav Havel's 'green grocer' image to show how ritual compliance sustains a system that many privately reject.
- He urges companies and countries to 'take their signs down' to break the illusion sustaining the old order.
