We start with a discussion of Sarah’s Depp-Heard opus, “The Agony and the Ecstasy of Depp v. Heard,” about which one reader on Twitter commented, “This is a Persian rug. It is exquisite, and among the finest things I've ever read. Sarah Hepola is what writers aspire to.” (See, Twitter can be nice too!) The story reminds Nancy (and readers) of what magazine writing can be, and why we will do more of it, and how you can make that happen …

Oh look at that, the perfect moment to ask you to become a free or paid subscriber.

We talk about the cultural delusion of celebrity, our own childhood craving for fame, and enjoy a short sidebar on heels and the times we were mistaken for sex workers. But back to Depp: Nancy loves how Sarah described teen heartthrobs, “the low testosterone of their beauty,” and this leads to a discussion of how threatening sex and masculinity can be to a girl. Sarah makes Nancy all squeamish describing the way she could see the outline of Baryshnikov’s penis through his ballet tights (and just typing that makes Nancy re-squeam).

We talk about Amber Heard’s big sit-down interview (meh) on Today and Dateline, and why it frustrates us when women don’t acknowledge their own agency and power. A juror appeared on Good Morning America to discuss how “a majority of the jury felt she was the aggressor” and found her unconvincing on the stand. True strength means owning your own behavior, but as Sarah wrote: “Her empowerment was ghostwritten.”

Sarah celebrated 12 years of sobriety this week, and she talks (and cries a bit) about that turning point when she left behind a thing she loved to become the woman she wanted to be. Our last order of business is that Nancy needs a new TV series to watch: Help her find one in the comments! A mysterious sound descends in our last 15 minutes (apologies), and Nancy swears it’s a lawnmower, but it also might be aliens beaming her into a space ship. We wish her luck.

Episode notes:

“The Agony and the Ecstasy of Depp v. Heard,” by Sarah Hepola, brought to you by …

What the heck are the AANs?

Nancy and Sarah sincerely apologize (not!) to Jesse Singal and Katie Herzog for unconsciously cribbing the “What’s the name of this podcast?” line. We have nothing but warm gushy feelings for them and “Blocked and Reported” and you will too.

Circus Circus may be the most emblematic hotel/casino in Vegas, with all its all-you-can-eat desperation and dead-end-ness and it’s kind of horribly glorious.

The Real Real World, by Hillary Johnson and Nancy Rommelmann, which stayed on the New York Times bestseller list for 13 weeks, getting to #2, and we were each paid $7500 flat, and that’s all Nancy is saying.

Wild: From Lost to Found on the Pacific Crest Trail, by Cheryl Strayed

… speaking of beautiful boys, we give you Tim Sampson, late father of Nancy’s daughter, here at about, oh, age 13. Miss you, Tim.

White Knights trailer

“Johnny Depp Through the Looking Glass: Examining the madness that male beauty elicits,” by Rhonda Garelick (NYT Opinion)

“Uniquely Stupid and Incredibly Coddled: Jonathan Haidt On How We Lost Our Collective Minds (And Whether We’ll Ever Find Them Again),” The Unspeakable podcast, Meghan Daum

Billy Wirth, Kevin Dillon, Tim Sampson in War Party

Amber Heard in, All the Boys Love Mandy Lane

The Fifth Column (A Podcast): 354 w/ Sarah Hepola "Barack's Misinformation Warfare Unit b/w Teenage Blackout"

Amber Heard interviewed by Savannah Guthrie on Today: part one, part two

Juror interview on Good Morning America

“Get Out of My Bedroom, Andrew Cuomo!” by Nancy Rommelmann (Tablet)

We Are the Luckiest: The Surprising Magic of a Sober Life by Laura McKowen

1883 official trailer

“1865” podcast, an old-fashioned radio drama

Outro song: “Take it With Me” by Tom Waits

We promise to rescue Nancy from the alien spaceship if you become a free or paid subscriber.

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363: Live From Magic Con Chicago - Episode 363