On today’s episode of Hear Me Out… if you need a Chief Diversity Officer, you’ve already failed.

Diversity, Equity and Inclusion (DEI) trainings are reaching ubiquity in pretty much every American workplace. There’s no doubt that discrimination, harassment and sequestering — on the basis of sex, sexuality, gender, race, age — all of that exists.

The question becomes what to do about it. And there’s an argument to be made that the trainings and buzzwords might be doing more to make workplaces worse than they do to make them better.

Cindy Gallop, entrepreneur and CEO of IfWeRanTheWorld and MakeLoveNotPorn, joins us.

If you have thoughts you want to share, or an idea for a topic we should tackle, you can now email the show: hearmeout@slate.com

Podcast production by Maura Currie

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