#210 – Cameron Meyer Shorb on dismantling the myth that we can’t do anything to help wild animals
Nov 29, 2024
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Cameron Meyer Shorb, executive director of the Wild Animal Initiative, dives into the urgent need for wild animal welfare. He reveals the staggering number of wild animals and the unseen suffering they endure from diseases and predation. Shorb discusses innovative interventions, like selective reforestation and vaccinations, highlighting the balance of aiding animals without disrupting ecosystems. He also addresses the ethical dilemmas in wildlife management, urging for a more compassionate approach to research that enhances both animal welfare and ecosystem resilience.
The staggering population of wild animals highlights the urgent need to address their potential suffering and welfare issues.
Many wild animals endure hardships akin to those faced by humans, challenging our perceptions of their well-being in natural environments.
Careful assessment of interventions is crucial to prevent negative consequences for ecosystems while helping wild animal welfare.
Selective reforestation is a promising intervention that aims to enhance both wildlife welfare and overall ecosystem health.
Ethical considerations surrounding wild animal welfare necessitate a holistic approach that values all sentient beings, regardless of their habitat.
Deep dives
The Scale of Wild Animal Populations
The podcast discusses the staggering number of wild animals on Earth, emphasizing the contrast between human populations and wildlife. For instance, all 8.2 billion humans could fit on the face of a quarter, while around 100,000 trillion invertebrates would occupy an area the size of a FIFA regulation soccer field. This vast disparity highlights the immense scale of suffering potentially experienced by wild animals. Such a perspective underscores the urgency of addressing wild animal welfare issues.
Understanding Wild Animal Suffering
The conversation explores the potential suffering faced by wild animals due to various factors such as diseases, predation, parasites, and extreme weather events. It challenges the misconception that wild animals are living fulfilling lives in balance with nature. The speaker argues that many wild animals experience hardships similar to those that would be deemed unacceptable for humans. This recognition calls for a reevaluation of how we perceive animal welfare in natural settings.
The Challenge of Helping Wild Animals
The podcast discusses the complexities involved in alleviating the suffering of wild animals while considering the unpredictable effects on ecosystems. Interventions need to be carefully assessed to avoid negative consequences for other species within the habitat. Examples of potential interventions, such as selective reforestation and wildlife vaccination, are offered, but the difficulty remains in implementing these strategies without causing unforeseen harm to the ecosystem. This highlights the need for continued research and innovation in wild animal welfare.
Potential Success of Perspective-Shifting Interventions
A notable intervention discussed is selective reforestation, which considers both wildlife welfare and environmental needs. By strategically planting forests that maximize the well-being of various animal populations, researchers can contribute to healthier ecosystems. Additionally, understanding ecosystems as dynamic and adaptable rather than fragile can lead to more effective management strategies. The conversation emphasizes the potential for positive outcomes through careful consideration of wild animal welfare in environmental policies.
The Ethical Considerations of Wild Animal Welfare
The podcast raises important ethical questions surrounding the priority given to wild animals compared to domesticated and farmed species. It invites listeners to consider the uncomfortable implications of human intervention in nature. The underlying message is that ethical considerations should extend to all sentient beings, regardless of their habitat. This perspective challenges the notion of naturalness as a value that justifies inaction in the face of suffering.
The Role of Research in Advancing Wild Animal Welfare
Research is central to advancing the field of wild animal welfare, as it provides the empirical foundation for understanding the needs and experiences of diverse species. The podcast highlights the importance of interdisciplinary collaboration to bridge gaps in knowledge and expertise. Funding for research, particularly from organizations like Wild Animal Initiative, is crucial in driving progress. The conversation reinforces the idea that continued exploration and study will lead to more effective solutions for improving wild animal welfare.
Contributions from Individuals and the Greater Community
The podcast emphasizes the critical role individual and community-level contributions play in supporting wild animal welfare initiatives. Advocacy, fundraising, and public awareness are highlighted as essential actions anyone can take to influence change. Encouraging collaboration between researchers, policymakers, and the public can create an informed and mobilized community. The discussion underscores the potential for collective action in addressing the challenges faced by wild animals.
Navigating the Emotional Landscape of Animal Welfare Work
The emotional toll of working in the field of wild animal welfare is acknowledged, particularly regarding feelings of guilt and inadequacy associated with the scale of suffering. Individuals involved in this work often grapple with the burden of knowing about the suffering of countless beings. However, reframing this narrative to focus on the potential for positive change can be empowering. By recognizing personal limits and celebrating small victories, individuals can navigate their emotional responses while contributing meaningfully to the cause.
Future Directions for Wild Animal Welfare
The podcast discusses the necessity for adapting strategies as climate change reshapes ecosystems and wildlife populations. Novel ecosystems with different species compositions may create both challenges and opportunities for animal welfare. The speaker suggests that while we can't predict all future conditions or outcomes, a flexible and innovative approach will be vital. By emphasizing the importance of continual learning and adaptation, a more compassionate and effective future for wild animals becomes conceivable.
"I really don’t want to give the impression that I think it is easy to make predictable, controlled, safe interventions in wild systems where there are many species interacting. I don’t think it’s easy, but I don’t see any reason to think that it’s impossible. And I think we have been making progress. I think there’s every reason to think that if we continue doing research, both at the theoretical level — How do ecosystems work? What sorts of things are likely to have what sorts of indirect effects? — and then also at the practical level — Is this intervention a good idea? — I really think we’re going to come up with plenty of things that would be helpful to plenty of animals." —Cameron Meyer Shorb
In today’s episode, host Luisa Rodriguez speaks to Cameron Meyer Shorb — executive director of the Wild Animal Initiative — about the cutting-edge research on wild animal welfare.
How it’s almost impossible to comprehend the sheer number of wild animals on Earth — and why that makes their potential suffering so important to consider.
How bad experiences like disease, parasites, and predation truly are for wild animals — and how we would even begin to study that empirically.
The tricky ethical dilemmas in trying to help wild animals without unintended consequences for ecosystems or other potentially sentient beings.
Potentially promising interventions to help wild animals — like selective reforestation, vaccines, fire management, and gene drives.
Why Cameron thinks the best approach to improving wild animal welfare is to first build a dedicated research field — and how Wild Animal Initiative’s activities support this.
The many career paths in science, policy, and technology that could contribute to improving wild animal welfare.
And much more.
Chapters:
Cold open (00:00:00)
Luisa's intro (00:01:04)
The interview begins (00:03:40)
One concrete example of how we might improve wild animal welfare (00:04:04)
Why should we care about wild animal suffering? (00:10:00)
What’s it like to be a wild animal? (00:19:37)
Suffering and death in the wild (00:29:19)
Positive, benign, and social experiences (00:51:33)
Indicators of welfare (01:01:40)
Can we even help wild animals without unintended consequences? (01:13:20)
Vaccines for wild animals (01:30:59)
Fire management (01:44:20)
Gene drive technologies (01:47:42)
Common objections and misconceptions about wild animal welfare (01:53:19)
Future promising interventions (02:21:58)
What’s the long game for wild animal welfare? (02:27:46)
Eliminating the biological basis for suffering (02:33:21)
Optimising for high-welfare landscapes (02:37:33)
Wild Animal Initiative’s work (02:44:11)
Careers in wild animal welfare (02:58:13)
Work-related guilt and shame (03:12:57)
Luisa's outro (03:19:51)
Producer: Keiran Harris Audio engineering: Ben Cordell, Milo McGuire, Simon Monsour, and Dominic Armstrong Content editing: Luisa Rodriguez, Katy Moore, and Keiran Harris Transcriptions: Katy Moore
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