Cameron Meyer Shorb, executive director of the Wild Animal Initiative, dives into the urgent need for wild animal welfare. He reveals the staggering number of wild animals and the unseen suffering they endure from diseases and predation. Shorb discusses innovative interventions, like selective reforestation and vaccinations, highlighting the balance of aiding animals without disrupting ecosystems. He also addresses the ethical dilemmas in wildlife management, urging for a more compassionate approach to research that enhances both animal welfare and ecosystem resilience.
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question_answer ANECDOTE
Selective Reforestation
Selective reforestation can incorporate wild animal welfare.
Planting different tree types impacts animal populations, potentially increasing flourishing.
insights INSIGHT
Scale of Wild Animal Sentience
Wild animals comprise approximately 99% of sentient minds on Earth.
An impartial ethical view suggests ethics should primarily concern wild animals.
insights INSIGHT
Visualizing Animal Populations
Visualizing animal populations relative to humans on a quarter reveals their vastness.
Invertebrates alone could fill a soccer field, highlighting their numerical dominance.
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In 'Meet the Neighbors,' Brandon Keim delves into the inner lives of animals, taking readers through various settings such as courtrooms, wildlife hospitals, and natural habitats. The book highlights recent discoveries in animal cognition, showing that animals like bats, swans, rats, and snakes exhibit complex behaviors such as trading favors, democratic decision-making, and social bonding. Keim argues that recognizing these intelligent and emotional lives of nonhumans should lead to a kinder and more inclusive approach to coexisting with them. He also explores historical and philosophical perspectives on human-animal relationships, advocating for a shift in how we treat and perceive animals in our communities.
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Ben Goldfarb
Silent Spring
Rachel Carson
Published in 1962, 'Silent Spring' by Rachel Carson is a seminal work in environmental science. The book documents the harmful effects of DDT and other pesticides on the environment, including their impact on bird populations, other wildlife, and human health. Carson argued that these substances should be called 'biocides' due to their broad impact on ecosystems. The book was serialized in 'The New Yorker' before its full publication and generated significant public and scientific debate. It led to a reversal in U.S. pesticide policy, the banning of DDT for agricultural use in 1972, and the establishment of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency in 1970. Carson's work challenged the prevailing attitudes towards scientific progress and human control over nature, advocating for responsible and careful use of pesticides and highlighting the need for environmental stewardship.
"I really don’t want to give the impression that I think it is easy to make predictable, controlled, safe interventions in wild systems where there are many species interacting. I don’t think it’s easy, but I don’t see any reason to think that it’s impossible. And I think we have been making progress. I think there’s every reason to think that if we continue doing research, both at the theoretical level — How do ecosystems work? What sorts of things are likely to have what sorts of indirect effects? — and then also at the practical level — Is this intervention a good idea? — I really think we’re going to come up with plenty of things that would be helpful to plenty of animals." —Cameron Meyer Shorb
In today’s episode, host Luisa Rodriguez speaks to Cameron Meyer Shorb — executive director of the Wild Animal Initiative — about the cutting-edge research on wild animal welfare.
How it’s almost impossible to comprehend the sheer number of wild animals on Earth — and why that makes their potential suffering so important to consider.
How bad experiences like disease, parasites, and predation truly are for wild animals — and how we would even begin to study that empirically.
The tricky ethical dilemmas in trying to help wild animals without unintended consequences for ecosystems or other potentially sentient beings.
Potentially promising interventions to help wild animals — like selective reforestation, vaccines, fire management, and gene drives.
Why Cameron thinks the best approach to improving wild animal welfare is to first build a dedicated research field — and how Wild Animal Initiative’s activities support this.
The many career paths in science, policy, and technology that could contribute to improving wild animal welfare.
And much more.
Chapters:
Cold open (00:00:00)
Luisa's intro (00:01:04)
The interview begins (00:03:40)
One concrete example of how we might improve wild animal welfare (00:04:04)
Why should we care about wild animal suffering? (00:10:00)
What’s it like to be a wild animal? (00:19:37)
Suffering and death in the wild (00:29:19)
Positive, benign, and social experiences (00:51:33)
Indicators of welfare (01:01:40)
Can we even help wild animals without unintended consequences? (01:13:20)
Vaccines for wild animals (01:30:59)
Fire management (01:44:20)
Gene drive technologies (01:47:42)
Common objections and misconceptions about wild animal welfare (01:53:19)
Future promising interventions (02:21:58)
What’s the long game for wild animal welfare? (02:27:46)
Eliminating the biological basis for suffering (02:33:21)
Optimising for high-welfare landscapes (02:37:33)
Wild Animal Initiative’s work (02:44:11)
Careers in wild animal welfare (02:58:13)
Work-related guilt and shame (03:12:57)
Luisa's outro (03:19:51)
Producer: Keiran Harris Audio engineering: Ben Cordell, Milo McGuire, Simon Monsour, and Dominic Armstrong Content editing: Luisa Rodriguez, Katy Moore, and Keiran Harris Transcriptions: Katy Moore
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