We Have Never Been Woke: A Conversation with Musa al-Gharbi
Apr 3, 2025
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Musa al-Gharbi, a sociologist and assistant professor at Stony Brook University, discusses his provocative insights from his upcoming book. He analyzes how occupational roles influence political leanings, suggesting surprising connections between work and affiliations. Al-Gharbi critiques the 'symbolic capital elite,' questioning why those advocating for equality still perpetuate inequalities. He also explores the complex relationship between wokeness and symbolic capitalism, revealing the inadequacies of both narratives in addressing social justice.
Occupational status often shapes political leanings, revealing a complex relationship between symbolic capitalists and traditional economic classifications.
The ambiguous nature of 'wokeness' complicates social justice discussions, highlighting the disconnect between elite intentions and the realities of marginalized communities.
Deep dives
Understanding Symbolic Capitalism
Symbolic capitalism is a concept that highlights a social group whose value is derived from non-material means such as knowledge and connections rather than the production of tangible goods. This group includes professionals like journalists, academics, and consultants, who leverage their expertise and networks to achieve success. The divide between symbolic capitalists and traditional productive economy workers emphasizes the changing landscape of political affiliations, where factors such as profession may better predict political leanings than class or income alone. For example, physicians and surgeons exhibit differing political preferences despite similar education and income, illustrating how symbolic capitalism creates a unique political and social dynamic that transcends traditional class distinctions.
The Role of Wokeness
The podcast emphasizes the ambiguity surrounding the term 'wokeness' and how it is often debated rather than clearly defined, complicating discussions about its implications. The author suggests that focusing on the function rather than the definition of wokeness reveals insights into how symbolic capitalism functions in society. In his view, the narratives surrounding wokeness, as propagated by knowledge economy professionals, may obscure the complex realities of social issues that these professionals claim to address. This notion suggests that while symbolic capitalists may advocate for social justice, their understanding and solutions often fail to engage with the actual circumstances faced by marginalized groups.
Tension Between Elitism and Egalitarianism
There exists a fundamental contradiction for symbolic capitalists who aspire to uphold egalitarian values while simultaneously benefiting from their elite status. This duality manifests in their approach to social justice, where sincere commitments to equality often conflict with desires to maintain or enhance their socio-economic standing. The discussion highlights how symbolic capitalists tend to engage with social issues in ways that are low-risk and costless to themselves, further perpetuating the inequalities they aim to resolve. Consequently, this leads to a disconnect with the communities they profess to support, underscoring how their good intentions may not translate into effective change.
Political Polarization and Engagement
The podcast addresses how the political landscape has evolved, noting that symbolic capitalists are significantly influential within both major political parties. This influence is evident in the composition of Congress, where a majority of members belong to this elite group, regardless of their political affiliation. The conversation reveals that the political strategies and beliefs of symbolic capitalists can often diverge from those of the broader working class, even leading to surprising electoral shifts among traditionally Democrat-leaning workers. Understanding the impact of symbolic capitalism on political alignment may help decipher why many social issues persist or worsen despite a growing elite focus on advocacy and social justice.
Why does occupation reliably predict political leanings? What is social capitalism, and how does it span income classes? If social capitalists are sincerely committed to equality and “wokeness,” why do they simultaneously benefit from—and perpetuate—the very inequalities they denounce?
Join us as we dive into Musa al-Gharbi’s provocative new book, We Have Never Been Woke: The Cultural Contradictions of a New Elite (Princeton University Press, 2024). We explore al-Gharbi’s central argument: the disconnect between the stated values of the "symbolic capital elite" and the real-world consequences of their actions, despite their genuine intentions. Al-Gharbi draws parallels to past "great awakenings"—periods of profound cultural upheaval and shifting attitudes toward civil rights. We also examine whether defining "wokeness" is essential to his thesis, and al-Gharbi clarifies some of the most frequently misunderstood aspects of his work.
Musa al-Gharbi is a sociologist and assistant professor in the School of Communication and Journalism at Stony Brook University. A columnist for The Guardian, his writing has appeared in The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Atlantic, and other major publications.
Contributions to and/or sponsorship of any speaker does not constitute departmental or institutional endorsement of the specific program, speakers or views presented.
