Joscha Bach, a German cognitive scientist and philosopher, delves into the intricate relationship between consciousness and artificial general intelligence (AGI). He discusses his unique upbringing in East Germany, early programming experiences, and the evolution of AI. The conversation explores the ethics of brain interventions, the future of consciousness research, and cultural perspectives on suffering. Bach also addresses the simulation hypothesis and the potential for AGI to enhance human creativity, posing profound questions about identity and self-awareness.
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Childhood in the Woods
Joscha Bach grew up in East Germany, largely isolated in a forest due to his father's societal disconnect.
This upbringing fostered self-reliance and a unique perspective, leading him to value intellectual stimulation despite preferring solitude.
insights INSIGHT
Early Reading Habits
Joscha Bach's early reading focused on understanding societal canons, not just pleasure.
He prioritized grasping the foundations of society through diverse sources like the Bible, Einstein's biography, and even Gone with the Wind.
question_answer ANECDOTE
Academic Journey
Joscha Bach chose academia to understand the mind, finding computer science aligned with his thinking style.
Early exposure to Commodore 64 fostered his understanding of constructing reality within computational systems.
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Roger Zelazny's "Creatures of Light and Darkness" is a fantasy novel characterized by its complex mythology and archetypal characters. The story unfolds in a world where powerful entities representing light and darkness clash, and the protagonist navigates this conflict. The novel delves into themes of good versus evil, fate versus free will, and the nature of reality itself. Zelazny's unique writing style blends elements of mythology, fantasy, and philosophical inquiry. The book is considered a significant work in the fantasy genre, known for its imaginative world-building and exploration of profound themes.
Lord of Light
Roger Zelazny
Roger Zelazny's "Lord of Light" is a science fantasy novel that reimagines Hindu mythology in a futuristic setting. The story follows a group of immortal beings who have colonized a planet and established a society based on their interpretations of ancient scriptures. The novel explores themes of power, religion, and the nature of immortality. Zelazny's writing style is characterized by its wit, intelligence, and philosophical depth. The book is considered a significant work in the science fantasy genre, appreciated for its imaginative world-building and exploration of complex themes.
Gone with the Wind
Margaret Mitchell
Published in 1936, 'Gone with the Wind' is a Pulitzer Prize-winning novel that explores the complexities of human passions during the American Civil War and Reconstruction. The story revolves around Scarlett O’Hara, the spoiled and manipulative daughter of a wealthy plantation owner in Georgia, as she navigates through heartbreak, ambition, and survival. The novel vividly depicts the dramatic changes and social upheaval of the time, featuring a cast of unforgettable characters including Rhett Butler, Melanie Hamilton, and Ashley Wilkes. It is a sweeping narrative filled with intricate character relationships, emotional depth, and a striking commentary on resilience in the face of adversity.
Joscha Bach is a German cognitive scientist, AI researcher, and philosopher known for his work on cognitive architectures, artificial intelligence, mental representation, emotion, social modeling, multi-agent systems, and the philosophy of mind.
(01:26) - Growing up in the forest in East Germany
(06:23) - Academia: early neural net pioneers, CS and Philosophy
(10:17) - The fall of the Berlin Wall
(14:57) - Commodore 64 and early programming experiences
(15:29) - AGI timeline and predictions
(19:35) - Scaling hypothesis, beyond Transformers, universality of information structures and world models
(25:29) - Consciousness
(41:11) - The ethics of brain interventions, zombies, and the Turing test
(43:43) - LLMs and simulated phenomenology
(46:34) - The future of consciousness research
(48:44) - Cultural perspectives on suffering
(52:19) - AGI and humanity's future
(58:18) - Simulation hypothesis
(01:03:33) - Liquid AI: Innovations and goals
(01:16:02) - Philosophy of Identity: the Transporter Problem, Is there anything beyond memory records?
Music used with permission from Blade Runner Blues Livestream improvisation by State Azure.
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Steve Hsu is Professor of Theoretical Physics and of Computational Mathematics, Science, and Engineering at Michigan State University. Previously, he was Senior Vice President for Research and Innovation at MSU and Director of the Institute of Theoretical Science at the University of Oregon. Hsu is a startup founder (SuperFocus.ai, SafeWeb, Genomic Prediction, Othram) and advisor to venture capital and other investment firms. He was educated at Caltech and Berkeley, was a Harvard Junior Fellow, and has held faculty positions at Yale, the University of Oregon, and MSU. Please send any questions or suggestions to manifold1podcast@gmail.com or Steve on X @hsu_steve.
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