DevOps: The Answer to Life, The Universe, and Everything

Oct 20, 2025

Cory O'Daniel, CEO of MassDriver and co-founder of OpenTofu, dives into the evolving landscape of DevOps. He discusses the ongoing relevance of the cloud promise and the significance of on-prem infrastructure. The conversation highlights the complex relationship between DevOps teams and platform engineering, emphasizing the importance of keeping technology choices simple to avoid unnecessary complexity. Cory also addresses the skills gap in operations and the critical role of apprenticeships in bridging this divide.

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INSIGHT

DevOps Fragmented Into Three Paths

DevOps never settled on one clear meaning and splintered into three main paths: culture, all-roles-do-everything, and DevOps-as-team.
Cory argues the platform-style DevOps team often yields the best results when properly resourced.

INSIGHT

Cloud Changed Everything — DevOps Didn’t

The rise of cloud fundamentally changed how workloads run, but the DevOps conversation didn't fully adapt to that shift.
That mismatch explains many of DevOps's later bastardizations and operational gaps.

ANECDOTE

CEO Didn’t See Ops Value

Cory recalls a CEO who walked by and said he didn't understand what operations did.
Cory pointed out the visible work product: the site being up and responsive, which executives often miss.

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In this episode, hosts Angelica Hill and Matthew Sanabria are joined by special guest Cory O'Daniel to dive deep into DevOps. They chat through some of the big questions shaping the industry: Is the "cloud promise" still holding up? What role does on-prem infrastructure play now? And perhaps most importantly, what does "DevOps" even mean today?

We continue this discussion in this week's episode of Break! We get into some of the topics briefly mentioned during the main episode. Watch it on YouTube or listen with your favorite podcasting app! Learn more by going to https://break.show.

We've got a ton of supporter content in this episode, so our supporters can hear Cory's thoughts on why technology choices should be kept simple, why we aren't thinking things through, and why the C-Suite forgets the pain of being an IC. Not a supporter yet? You can fix that by heading over to https://fallthrough.fm/subscribe where you'll get not only extra content but also higher quality audio. Sign up today!

Thanks for tuning in and happy listening!

Table of Contents:

Prologue (00:00:00)
Chapter 1: What Is DevOps? (00:05:50)
Chapter 2: Structuring DevOps (00:20:27)
Chapter 3: Software Engineering is a Craft (00:46:10)
Chapter 4: Keep Technology Choices Simple [Extended Only] (00:58:18)
Chapter 5: Why Are We Not Thinking Things Through? [Extended Only] (00:58:45)
Chapter 6: What Makes The C-Suite Forget The Pain? [Extended Only] (00:59:26)
Chapter 7: OpenTofu (01:00:16)
Epilogue (01:03:12)

Hosts

Matthew Sanabria - Host
Angelica Hill - Producer
Cory O'Daniel - Guest

Socials:

(00:00) - Prologue
(05:50) - Chapter 1: What Is DevOps?
(20:27) - Chapter 2: Structuring DevOps
(46:10) - Chapter 3: Software Engineering is a Craft
(58:18) - Chapter 4: Keep Technology Choices Simple [Extended Only]
(58:45) - Chapter 5: Why Are We Not Thinking Things Through? [Extended Only]
(59:26) - Chapter 6: What Makes The C-Suite Forget The Pain? [Extended Only]
(01:00:16) - Chapter 7: OpenTofu
(01:03:12) - Epilogue