What does pragmatic climate policy look like today? In this special episode, our Michael Greenstone sits down with Senator Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska) and former Senator Heidi Heitkamp (D-North Dakota) for a frank conversation about regulation, the energy transition, and the politics of bipartisan climate action. The two senators don’t always agree—but they share a belief that durable change starts with listening.

Shocked is part of the University of Chicago Podcast Network and produced by Magnificent Noise for the Institute for Climate and Sustainable Growth, which combines a 360-degree approach to education with frontier research having an impact in front-line communities globally. The Institute’s efforts are driven by the need to balance climate risks with societal growth. To follow or support their work, see our show notes or visit climate.uchicago.edu

Amy Harder is the host, along with co-host, Michael Greenstone, a professor at the University of Chicago and director of the Institute for Climate and Sustainable Growth. Our executive producers are Eric Nuzum, Michael Greenstone, and Sam Ori. Our production staff includes Christine Driscoll, Amy Pedulla, Sophie Bridges, Jamie York, and Samantha Henig. Our sound designer is Kristen Mueller.

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Bonus: A Climate Conversation Across the Aisle with Lisa Murkowski and Heidi Heitkamp