IL35: The New Age of Economic Warfare: Are We Ready? ft. Edward Fishman

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Feb 26, 2025

Dive into the modern landscape of economic warfare with insights from expert Edward Fishman. Discover how the U.S. utilizes financial dominance to impose sanctions on nations like Iran and Russia. Explore the innovative use of escrow accounts and the challenges of enforcing sanctions in today's complex market. The podcast also highlights the evolving bifurcation of the oil market and its geopolitical implications. Finally, consider the future of global economic relations in a world reshaped by strategic partnerships and resource competition.

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ANECDOTE

Megarian Embargo

Athens imposed a trade embargo on Megara in the 5th century BC to demonstrate its power.
This act of economic warfare, meant to deter Sparta, ironically provoked war.

INSIGHT

Modern Economic Warfare

Historically, economic warfare required military force for implementation, like naval blockades.
Now, due to hyper-globalization and U.S. regulatory reach, sanctions can be imposed by signing a document.

ANECDOTE

Stuart Levy's Roadshow

Stuart Levy, a lawyer, transformed U.S. sanctions policy by leveraging banks' risk aversion.
He presented evidence of illicit activities to banks worldwide, pressuring them to stop dealing with Iran.

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Our guest on this episode is Edward Fishman, a world expert on the modern art of economic warfare. Edward is author of the new book Chokepoints: American Power In The Age of Economic Warfare. He currently teaches at Columbia University and prior to that advised the US Secretary of State, Joints Chiefs of Staff and Treasury Department on the deployment of economic sanctions. We discuss the details of how the US uses its dominant position in the world’s financial markets and technology software to pressure countries like Iran, Russia and China. Most importantly this episode explains why these tools used to influence these chokepoints are permanent and are starting to form the contours of the new global economy that will persist for the coming decades.

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Episode TimeStamps:

02:14 - Introduction to Edward Fishman

08:24 - The failures of economic warfare

14:04 - What Stuart Levy can teach us about economic

19:26 - Who even want to work at banks nowadays?

22:10 - The most successful sanction in modern times

27:02 - The dangers of sanctions, export controls and tarifs

32:56 - What is a denial order and why is it such a powerful tool?

37:52 - What is the entity list and what is it used for?

38:55 - Technology chokepoints and the challenges they pose

46:08 - The secret to the American success

48:29 - Is the price cap on Russian oil actually working as intended?

53:31 - The oil market is changing

55:17 - Where is the global economy heading?

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