Welcome to episode ninety-three of New Creation Conversations. It is fun for me to bring you a third conversation with one of my favorite authors and scholars, Dr. Andrew Root. Andy is Professor and Carrie Olson Baalson Chair of Youth and Family Ministry at Luther Seminary. Andy has written several books on ministry and spiritual formation. I’ve had him on the podcast twice to talk about his incredible series on ministry and formation in the secular age.

Our conversation today centers on his most recent book in that series When the Church Stops Working: A Future for Your Congregation beyond More Money, Programs, and Innovation (published by Brazos Press and co-authored with Blair Bertrand). For those of you who are unfamiliar with the secular series, you will love the book because it is a wonderful summary of the key insights of the entire series. For those of you who have read all or parts of the series, you will love this book because it not only summarizes the series but also gives some very practical responses to the work Andy has done in the other books. It also is a great book for you to give to those friends you’ve tried to describe the series to, but never could find quite the right words. I am a big fan of Andy’s work and love getting to talk with him about it. And I love that I have this format to share the conversation with you.