Stephen Jenkinson, expert in dying and Harvard-trained theologian, challenges societal misconceptions about aging and responsibility. He explores our culture's avoidance of death and reflects on his experiences counseling people on death. The podcast delves into the absence of enlightenment in the final moments of life and emphasizes the importance of embracing ordinary aspects of life. The importance of leading with our humanity and persevering in difficult times is also discussed. Overall, the podcast offers profound insights on wisdom, elderhood, and starting at ordinary.
Dying well requires embracing the poverty of dying, accepting the limitations and inevitable consequences of the dying process, and recognizing dying as a life force and a dimension of humanity, rather than an enemy to be conquered.
To confront the current climate crisis, individuals must embrace their humanity and lead with life-loving values, recognizing that humanity is not guaranteed, but our humanity is, and taking action to address the crisis.
Deep dives
The Poverty of Dying Well
Dying well requires embracing the poverty of dying, accepting the limitations and inevitable consequences of the dying process. Many people resist facing the reality of death, leading to a profound lack of clarity and guidance on how to approach it. This is especially true in Western cultures, where there is a strong emphasis on individualism and self-determination. The fear of death deepens the poverty, making it even more challenging to confront. Stephen Jenkinson suggests that dying well involves learning to weave with the thread-bearness of death, to make a place for death at the table and engage in a companionship with it. This requires recognizing dying as a life force and a dimension of humanity, rather than an enemy to be conquered. By embracing the poverty of dying, individuals can affirm life and leave a worthy legacy for future generations.
The Poverty of Humanity's Death
Just as there is a poverty in dying well, there is also a poverty in how humanity approaches its own death. The current climate crisis highlights the limitations and failures of our collective humanity. Despite the urgency of the crisis, many people are unable or unwilling to face the reality of our dire situation. There is a need to recognize that humanity is not guaranteed, but our humanity is. It is through embracing our humanity and leading with life-loving values that we can confront the profound grief and take action to address the crisis. Stephen Jenkinson suggests that rather than waiting for a dramatic wake-up call, individuals must start with the ordinary, developing wisdom and living authentically in the present moment.
Submission and the Learning of Poverty
Stephen Jenkinson emphasizes the importance of submitting to the circumstances of dying and the poverty it brings. To truly engage with death and dying well, individuals need to surrender the illusion of control and learn from the poverty it reveals. This involves invoking a sense of humility and willingness to listen and learn from the wisdom of others who have grappled with dying. Rather than seeking comfort or easy answers, embracing the discomfort and challenges of the dying process is essential in cultivating wisdom and living purposefully.
The Skill of Going On
Stephen Jenkinson highlights the skills required to navigate the challenges of dying and the climate crisis. These skills include acknowledging our limitations and the poverty of our situation, while also recognizing the significance of continuing on despite the difficulties. He draws on Samuel Beckett's phrase, 'I can't go on, I'll go on,' emphasizing the importance of acknowledging the difficulties without succumbing to nihilism. The invitation is to accept the reality of our circumstances and respond with resilience and a commitment to living authentically in the face of adversity.
Stephen Jenkinson (Harvard-trained theologian, activist and elder) is an expert in dying. During his 20 years working in “the death trade” he counselled more than 1500 people to their death. He is also the founder of The Orphan Wisdom School, a teaching house for the skills of deep living, he's the subject of the documentary Griefwalker and author of Die Wise: A Manifesto For Sanity and Soul.
Stephen's wild idea is that we must learn to die well…so that we can live well. This is a challenging and poetic conversation. We cover euthanasia (it's death-phobic), elderhood (current boomers have failed at it) and not being “too late” to work it all out.
Stephen reads from his book A Generation’s Worth and we reference his recent books Die Wise and Reckoning