Clio's SVP of Global Sales, Jenny Dingus, joins Kyle Norton to talk about why the "people × quota" revenue planning model is terrible, and what they're using instead.

Jenny shares how Clio's $1B acquisition flipped their planning model, how they forecast in high-uncertainty markets, and what "drawing the owl" looks like in real life.

If you run revenue and you're tired of spreadsheet fantasy planning (or just want to know what two senior GTM leaders are thinking about these days), worth a listen!

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Chapters:

02:15 Jenny's Career Journey from RingCentral to Clio

04:00 Vertical SaaS and Expanding Market Opportunity

06:10 Disruption, AI, and Modernizing Legal Tech

08:00 Educating a Skeptical Market on AI Adoption

10:15 The Myth of the "People x Quota" Growth Model

12:05 Why Linear Capacity Planning Still Persists

14:45 The Integrated Planning Alternative

17:10 Planning Amid Product Launches and Acquisitions

20:15 Quotas, Motivation, and Momentum in Sales Teams

23:00 Multi-Factor Revenue Planning and Emerging Markets

27:05 Managing Speculative Growth Bets and Reforecasting

31:10 Balancing Capacity and Demand in High-Growth Environments

34:40 Strategic Congruence: Playing the Right Company Game

38:30 Communication, Change Management, and Leadership Alignment

43:45 Inside Clio's Acquisition and GTM Integration Process

48:40 Leadership Communication Principles and "Feeling" the Message

52:00 Frontline Enablement During Massive Change

56:45 Building Continuous Feedback Loops and AI-Enabled Training

01:00:30 Quickfire: Lessons in Leadership, Humility, and Focus

01:04:00 Favorite Reads and Closing Reflections

Amy Spangler on the writing of Sevgi Soysal and running a literary agency in Istanbul