Stuart Stevens and Rick Wilson

Six weeks out from midterm Election Day and on the eve of what may be the January 6 committee's final public hearing, John Heilemann sits down with Rick Wilson and Stuart Stevens, co-founder and senior adviser (respectively) at The Lincoln Project and two of the savviest and most savage #NeverTrump ex-Republican strategists in the political universe. Wilson and Stevens discuss the myriad legal threats Trump is facing and whether, at long last, accountability may be at hand for him; how and why Trump's chances of winning the GOP presidential nomination in 2024 would actually improve were he indicted on federal criminal charges; the possibility that, rather than challenging Trump, Florida governor Ron DeSantis could wind up being his running mate; and the degree to which fears of physical (in addition to political) harm animates the slavish obeisance to Trump by Republican elected officials. Heilemann also asks Wilson and Stevens about the controversies that engulfed The Lincoln Project last year, including the investigation into allegations of sexual misconduct by one of its co-founders, and the five-part Showtime docu-series about the group set to premiere on October 7.

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