304. Joel Morwood

Since the Center for Sacred Sciences was founded in 1987, Joel Morwood has served as the spiritual director and primary teacher for its community of practitioners. Joel's first book, Naked Through the Gate: A Spiritual Autobiography, tells the story of his own spiritual path, culminating in Gnosis, or Awakening, in 1983. Here is some of what Joel has to say about himself and his role: Some people who have come to me have been disappointed to discover that I have no supernatural powers to transmit, no magic wand to wave, no extraordinary knowledge to dispense which can make them instantly wise, loving, and happy. "Who, then, are you?" they ask. "What's your secret?" My secret can be summed up in one word: Selflessness. Selflessness is the Truth. Selflessness is the Way. Selflessness is the Fruit. In reality, there is no 'you' nor 'I' nor any 'self' whatsoever. There is only Consciousness Itself—the One True God—which is what we are. All that is necessary is to Realize This, because to Realize This is Wisdom, to Live This is Love, to Be This is Happiness. So, if you really want to know my secret, look to your 'self'. In finding the source of your 'self', you will find Consciousness Itself, and nothing else. Then, you, too, will be free of your self and all its sufferings. Joel has no special religious attire. In fact, he often wears old blue jeans, sweatshirts, and a Mexican poncho. He is married, enjoys movies, drinks wine, and interacts with others much like any other guy. Joel speaks from his own Realization or Gnosis. Although he makes use of stories, texts, and practices taken from many different traditions, his interpretations are always spontaneous, direct, and personal. He continually points beyond mere intellectual understanding to a Truth that is beyond both thought and experience. Moreover, he constantly links the teachings of the mystics with concrete examples drawn from daily life so that one can see how they actually relate to one's own experiences. In all this Joel displays an intuition, sensitivity, and humor which could never have come from book-learning alone. Moreover, because Joel has no pretensions about being someone special, he is approachable not only as a teacher but also as a friend. He is a wonderful listener who knows how to pierce right to the heart of a problem. Joel is a teacher who always challenges his students to investigate the mystics and their teachings for themselves. Far from demanding blind obedience, or even verbal agreement, he encourages them to explore various teachers, to compare what he says with the teachings found in the great mystical traditions, to test all these teachings against our one's experience, and to test one's own experience against the hard realities of life. In his view, a true spiritual path never leads one away from reality but, on the contrary, forces one to face it squarely, no matter how ugly or painful it may appear. It is only by getting to the bottom of suffering that we can be free of suffering. Finally, Joel receives no financial remuneration from the Center. His teachings are given as a labor of love freely to all—although occasionally he has asked for personal donations to cover special needs, like the time he needed a suit for his marriage. Other books: The Way of Selflessness: A Practical Guide to Enlightenment Based on the Teachings of the World's Great Mystics Through Death's Gate: A Guide to Selfless Dying Talk by Tom McFarlane referred to during the interview: Einstein, Buddha, Reality: The Nondual Roots of Science Transcript of this interview Interview recorded 8/22/2015 YouTube Video Chapters: 00:00:00 - Introduction to Buddha at the Gas Pump 00:05:23 - A Shift Toward Mysticism 00:13:05 - Awakening in a Cinder Block Motel 00:14:35 - Zen Flesh Zen Bones and the Awakening 00:19:17 - The distinction between absolute and relative truth 00:24:24 - The Difference Between Manifest and Unmanifest Bliss 00:29:43 - The Nature of Consciousness 00:35:05 - A Shift in Consciousness and the Unimportance of Enlightenment 00:39:49 - The Wisdom of Afflicted Emotions 00:45:07 - The Dance of Shiva and the Longing to be Known 00:50:04 - Irreverence in Zen teachings 00:54:51 - The Shark Spirit Helper and Eskimo Culture 01:00:26 - The Play of Distinction 01:05:30 - Appreciating the Manifestations of Buddha Nature 01:10:23 - Quantum Mechanics and Mysticism 01:14:59 - The Evolution of Our Understanding of Gravity 01:19:49 - Scientific Understanding and the Evolution of the Universe 01:24:26 - The Relativism of Truth and Paradigms 01:29:32 - The Danger of Cultural Superiority 01:34:17 - The Mystics' Perspective on Reality 01:37:57 - Seeing Beyond the Illusion 01:41:36 - Marvelous Conversations about Christianity 01:45:07 - The Universe Trying to Wake You Up 01:48:28 - God's Delight in Creation 01:51:40 - The Creativity of Artists and Musicians 01:55:00 - Deepening the Insight into the Emptiness of Phenomena 01:59:05 - The Paradox of Indifference and Devotion 02:03:05 - Falling in Love with God 02:06:52 - Increasing the Chance of Enlightenment 02:09:51 - The Journey of Awakening 02:12:38 - Accessing Interviews on Batgap.com