Today's episode features Johanna Dahlroos and Emma Tracey, co-CEOs and co-founders of Berlin-based creative brand agency Sceal. Its focus lies primarily in helping tech companies grow at scale, finetune brand values, overall brand presence, products and brand campaings. This episode is driven by the atypical founder stories that Johanna and Emma have. Johanna transitioned from a career as a painter in her Native Finland to digital designer and now founder, while Emma is a serial entrepreneur having founded Honeypot, an IT job platform that Emma sold in 2019 for 57m. We talked about bootstrapping, the current startup landscape, marrying a career with family and their client portfolio including storied Berlin techno club Tresor.