Michael Cholbi approaches work not just as a function of economics or management but as a deep philosophical question. He brings a rare lens to the topic, one that connects ancient wisdom, contemporary ethics, and the day-to-day experience of workers today. In this episode, Michael and Dart explore how work shapes us and how it might be reimagined to serve us better. From Plato and Marx to Bullshit Jobs, dignity to autonomy, they ask what makes work just, and whether companies are morally responsible for the work they design.

Michael Cholbi is a Professor of Philosophy at the University of Edinburgh and the author of the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy’s definitive entry on the philosophy of work. His research explores ethics, justice, and how societal structures influence human well-being.

In this episode, Dart and Michael discuss:
- Why many people are “work-positive” by necessity, not choice
- What adaptive preferences reveal about our relationship to labor
- The moral obligations of companies that design work as a product
- Is the duty to work just?
- How automation could decenter work and expand freedom
- Working for dignity vs. being used as a means
- What a less work-centered future might offer us all
- And other topics…

Michael Cholbi is a Professor of Philosophy at the University of Edinburgh, specializing in moral philosophy and the philosophy of work. He is the author of the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy’s definitive entry on work and labor—a leading scholarly resource. His research examines ethics, justice, and how social structures impact human well-being. He is also widely recognized for his work on the philosophy of death, grief, and autonomy. Michael has written or edited numerous influential books and frequently contributes to both academic and public debates on labor, meaning, and ethics. His work connects ancient philosophical insights with contemporary issues like automation and workplace dignity.

Resources Mentioned:
Bullshit Jobs: A Theory, by David Graeber: https://www.amazon.com/Bullshit-Jobs-Theory-David-Graeber/dp/150114331X
The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy entry on Work and Labor, by Michael Cholbi: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/work-labor/
The Republic, by Plato: https://www.amazon.com/Republic-Plato/dp/1503379981
Economic and Philosophic Manuscripts of 1844, by Karl Marx: https://www.amazon.com/Economic-Philosophic-Manuscripts-Western-Philosophy/dp/0486455610

Connect with Michael:
Website: https://michael.cholbi.com/

Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Arianna Huffington & Agapi Stassinopoulos