32. The Intersection of Product Management and Design with Toma Lulgjuraj

Creating Quality Products: A Candid Conversation with Toma on Design and Product Management

In this episode, Estee converses with Toma, the first designer guest on the show, about the integral relationship between design and product management. They reflect on how they connected through a humorously truthful LinkedIn post that Toma put up about the dilution of design quality during product development.

The discussion delves into the challenges of aligning different stakeholders' priorities, the importance of shared values in achieving extraordinary outcomes, and the pitfalls of compromising on quality for fast metrics. Toma talks about the significance of maintaining high-quality standards and the impact of values-driven decision-making in organizations like Apple and Microsoft.

The conversation also touches on the detrimental effects of MVP culture and how true product management focuses on creating excellent products rather than just checking boxes. The episode concludes with a lightning round exploring Toma's views on design podcasts, his admiration for Steve Jobs, and key takeaways for product managers to prioritize quality and fight for the product.

00:00 Welcome and Introduction

00:24 The Designer's LinkedIn Post

02:44 The Importance of Aligned Values

04:54 Design in Tech Companies

08:34 Quality vs. Metrics

10:20 The MVP Debate

19:22 Top-Down Quality Culture

22:22 The Power of Value-Driven Decisions

23:13 The Problem with Compromising Quality

24:10 Top-Down vs. Bottom-Up Culture

25:18 The Importance of Using Your Own Products

26:40 The Role of Product Managers vs. Project Managers

31:06 Creating a Strong Product-Design Partnership

33:59 Evaluating Quality in Popular Apps

37:45 Lightning Round: Insights and Inspirations

About Toma: Toma's journey to becoming a designer was unexpected. Originally from Australia, he studied law and business before life took a turn in 2006, leading him to Italy. There, he moved his first pixel and wrote his first line of code. Since then, Toma has brought his design expertise to tech companies across multiple continents, focusing on product and organizational strategy and design. Now based in Amsterdam, he is a Design Director at the European hospitality unicorn MEWS, where his teams spearhead the creation of outstanding guest experiences.

Link to the image that inspired this episode: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/activity-7188806639368462337-QDrv?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop