Jessica Zwaan, COO at Whereby, joined us again on The Modern People Leader for a deep dive into Employee Lifetime Value (ELTV).

We explored how HR leaders can adapt marketing-style metrics like LTV to CAC for talent, the different ways to calculate it, and how the process itself can reshape how People teams think about value, cost, and impact.

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(05:45) Wrapping up Jessica’s second book & reflections on avoiding hustle culture

(06:31) How to balance multiple big projects without burning out

(07:42) Personal habits that help prevent hustle culture

(09:16) Stephen on using “extra time” with intention

(11:29) Mary Oliver’s “Don’t Hesitate” poem and finding joy in work

(13:02) Daniel on keeping play in work despite business growth pressures

(14:05) Segue to main topic: Employee Lifetime Value (ELTV)

(15:26) Why ELTV sparks debate and common misconceptions

(16:25) Treating ELTV conversations like an AMA to address objections

(17:05) Behind-the-scenes of Stephen’s LinkedIn post that started the conversation

(18:21) Image generation with Midjourney & content process for MPL Build

(21:42) Different ways to calculate ELTV depending on company context

(24:23) Why People teams resist new metrics compared to Marketing teams

(27:56) The value of the calculation process itself for HR teams

(29:13) Why ELTV is calculated on an aggregate, not individual, basis

(31:55) The halo effect of great employees & intangible impacts on value

(32:29) Breaking ELTV down by department, team, or cohorts

(36:27) Core cost factors in ELTV: recruiting, onboarding, L&D, benefits, comp

(39:12) Why knowing cost per employee matters beyond ELTV

(40:50) Tracking ELTV with different financial baselines (revenue vs. EBITDA)

(43:32) The “gold standard” three-to-one LTV-to-CAC ratio and when to adjust it

(44:58) Similar or alternative metrics for different business models

(46:05) Why each company’s key metrics should look different

(47:15) Recognizing others who pioneered ELTV concepts

(48:22) Final advice: ELTV is a compass, not a map

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