Grey Dynamics

Senior CIA Ops Officer John Atwell on Culture Change, Working with Five Eyes and Career Advice - Episode 48

Mar 22, 2024

Former CIA ops officer John Atwell discusses post-9/11 culture shift, admiration for international intelligence agencies, rise of non-state actors in intelligence, and advice for aspiring intelligence professionals. Reveals insights on working with spouse at CIA, opting out of private sector, and the importance of diverse experiences in intelligence roles.

47:40

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Episode guests

John Atwell

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Episode notes

Podcast summary created with Snipd AI

Quick takeaways

CIA underwent a culture shift post-9/11 towards paramilitarism, potentially returning to pre-9/11 strategic targets focus.

John emphasizes diverse paths and attributes needed for success in intelligence careers, encouraging adaptability and clean backgrounds.

Deep dives

John Aswell's Journey into the CIA and Transition to Private Sector

John Aswell discusses his upbringing in a family with government ties and how he gravitated towards an intelligence career. Starting with a CIA internship during college, he quickly transitioned to working on analytic tasks and then moved to the operational side of the agency. He highlights the flexibility within the agency that allowed him to explore different roles and find his niche as a senior operations officer after 23 years. His career spanned a variety of areas from counterintelligence to strategic targets, providing a diverse and engaging experience.

Introduction

5min

Exploring the Contrasting Attributes for Intelligence Roles and Theatrical Parallels

2min

Exploration of Diverse Interests and Community Service

2min

Evolution of CIA Operations and Cultural Shifts Post-9/11

20min

Transition and Contribution in the Intelligence Community

16min

Discussion on KGB Museum Visit, Shooting Range Experience, and Intelligence Activities

3min

Welcome back to the Grey Dynamics Podcast! Today, we are talking to John Atwell. John spent over twenty-three years of experience in operational and analysis roles at the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). Since leaving the agency, John has spent time as a consultant, become a columnist for the Haiwaii-Tribune Herald, became editor of the Association of Former Intelligence Officers and a college lecturer at Haiwaii Community College. We discussed the culture shift in CIA after 9/11, views on allied and adversarial agencies around the world, advice for a career in intelligence and much more.

Find John Atwell:

We Spoke About:

0:32 - John Atwell’s background
4:59 - What made John suitable for an operational role at CIA?
9:10 - The shift towards paramilitarism at CIA after 9/11
12:21 - Will CIA return to its pre-9/11 culture with its focus back to strategic targets?
15:04 - CIA and diversity
19:40 - Which international intelligence agencies was John impressed by during his career?
21:31 - Thoughts on adversarial intelligence agencies
23:44 - The growing use of intelligence and counter intelligence by non-state actors
26:56 - Is the swing to OSINT, geospatial and cyber at the detriment of HUMINT?
29:38 - Why John did not join the private sector after leaving the intelligence community
32:06 - John on working with his wife at CIA
33:08 - What advice would you give someone who wants a career in intelligence?
35:59 - Ahmed’s career journey
40:51 - Cultural Recommendations

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Grey Dynamics

Senior CIA Ops Officer John Atwell on Culture Change, Working with Five Eyes and Career Advice - Episode 48

Episode guests

Podcast summary created with Snipd AI

Quick takeaways

Deep dives

John Aswell's Journey into the CIA and Transition to Private Sector

Characteristics for Success as an Operations Officer

Transitioning Out of the Intelligence Community

Advice for Aspiring Intelligence Professionals

Find John Atwell:

We Spoke About:

Advance Your Intelligence Career Today!

Get access to exclusive Grey Dynamics Reports

The Grey Dynamics Podcast is available on all major platforms!

Remember Everything You Learn from Podcasts