Emily Naylor is a audio producer and presenter in London

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TRANSCRIPT:

ZAK: I was gonna talk to Emily about a few Spanish comprehension strategies she's devised. But then I realized, she and I had something in common.

ZAK: Is that a phrase over there, people-pleasing?

EMILY: Yeah, it might as well be my middle name to be honest with you, Zak. (Laughter)

ZAK: Emily People-Pleasing Naylor. I am Zak People-Pleasing Rosen. It's nice to meet you. (Laughter)

EMILY: You too. Pleasure. Only if you like meeting me. If not then... (Laughter)

ZAK: What do you think is the alternative to people-pleasing? Just to please yourself? To be a self-pleaser?

EMILY: No, I don't think that quite it either. I think it's to be a person with people. You don't have a to be a people-pleaser. You don't have to be a person pisser-offer. You're just a person with people and it sounds so simple and obvious but perhaps we don't spend enough time thinking, you are a person. Think about how complex you are. Your emotions, hopes, ambitions, worries...what you're gonna be thinking about in 24 hours time isn't, that something said something weird and maybe they don't like me now. That's irrelevant. Think about how you and how complex you are as a person and then think you're in a room with 20 other people and they're just as complex and not in a negative way but you're not that big an influences on their life in that moment. They're going home. They've got to think about what to have for dinner. So, you're just a person with people.

ZAK: Ugh, you're making me cry. I love this. Be a person with a people! Stop trying to curate their interpersonal dynamics. Just be with them.

EMILY: And be present because ultimately when you're people-pleasing you're trying to manipulate a situation. You're taking a step back. You're not in the moment. You are analyzing little things. You're worrying and that can be quite self-centered and you aren't a person with people. You are yourself worrying about all these things which you can't control. So, don't waste your energy on that. Just be present and listen and try as best as you can in this kind of mindful, social way to let go of those little things. Doesn't mean they're not gonna worry you. If they do, just accept that. You can't shut it off, but, just try to listen to what that person's saying and if they like you or not, that's not really a) your concern and b) you can't control it, so...

ZAK: Yeah. Yeah. Them liking us isn't the point. It's just a possible by-product of being present with them.

EMILY: Exactly. And ultimately your job as a human being is to socialize with other human beings. We'd love that to be positive. Fine. But also if you are in a super important business meeting or you're in a courtroom and you're defending your client and then the prosecutor is whatever...you don't want the prosecutor to like you. You want your client to get the best deal. Forget about the people-pleasing.

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