Pearls On, Gloves Off #84 - Resetting the Relationship with Outside Counsel
Dec 23, 2025
43:55
Mary O'Carroll welcomes Stephanie Hamon (Global Head of Legal External Engagement, HSBC) to explore how in‑house legal teams are rethinking their relationships with law firms, vendors, and the broader legal ecosystem. With experience spanning Barclays, Norton Rose Fulbright, and now HSBC, Stephanie brings a uniquely global and pragmatic perspective to legal transformation - from process redesign to AI's impact on delivery models.
In this episode:
- The new panel model: Stephanie explains how HSBC is moving beyond transactional vendor management toward deeper, collaborative partnerships with firms and providers.
- Legal ops as a mindset: It's not just a function. Stephanie shares why ops is about how you think, not just who you hire.
- People, process, then tech: Before chasing the next tool, Stephanie urges legal teams to address foundational issues in process and data.
- Why consulting helps (at first): For legal departments overwhelmed by where to start, Stephanie outlines how consultants can build clarity and roadmaps before you hire in‑house.
- The death of the billable hour?: As AI and internal tooling reshape what gets sent outside, pricing models need to shift from time to value.
- Joint talent development: Stephanie makes a strong case for collaborative training between firms, clients, and academia to fix the broken legal talent pipeline.
- Three reasons we go external: Capacity, capability, and strategic insurance - and why each is evolving.
- Law firms under pressure: How client-side innovation is forcing firms to rethink delivery, pricing, and partnership structures.
If you've been trying to future‑proof your outside counsel strategy - or are wondering how AI is reshaping legal budgets, this conversation is a clear-eyed, practical guide to what's next.
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