The Sacred Speaks 134 - Douglas Thomas: The Deep Psychology of BDSM and Kink
Dr. Douglas Thomas, a Jungian scholar and psychotherapist, dives deep into the psychology of BDSM and kink. He reframes these experiences as essential expressions of the psyche, rather than mere pathology. The conversation uncovers why societal fears around sexuality often lead to moral rigidity. Douglas explores how transgressing societal norms can lead to wholeness and discusses the potential for trauma empowerment within BDSM practices. He emphasizes the importance of consent, community protocols, and the transformative dimensions of these often-stigmatized experiences.
01:16:15
Origins Of Gay Leather Culture
- Douglas describes leather culture's post-WWII roots among gay veterans and biker clubs.
- He explains leather's evolution from practical gear to erotic subculture.
Wholeness Over Moral Goodness
- Jungian development requires transgressing social norms to recover parts of the self sacrificed for approval.
- Douglas Thomas argues wholeness matters more than appearing morally 'good.'
Sex As A Cultural Third Rail
- Sexuality is a cultural "third rail" that exposes deep insecurities and taboos.
- Thomas links historical confession and modern obsession with sex to anxiety about normalcy.
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Intro
00:00 • 5min
Douglas Thomas: Background and Journey
04:42 • 59sec
Early Clinical Work and Jungian Turn
05:41 • 1min
Entering the Leather and Kink Communities
06:45 • 3min
Personal Origins and Imagination
09:37 • 2min
History of Leather and Postwar Origins
11:46 • 4min
Masculinity, Hypermasculinity, and Attraction
15:20 • 3min
Gender Roles and Socialization of Men
18:39 • 5min
Transgression as Path to Wholeness
23:55 • 3min
Projection, Moral Certainty, and Evil
27:10 • 5min
Sexuality as Cultural Third Rail
32:37 • 5min
History of Sexual Pathology Labels
37:54 • 3min
Fetish, Addiction, and Life Balance
40:38 • 2min
Defining BDSM and Kink
42:59 • 2min
Theatricality and Scenes in BDSM
44:40 • 5min
Spiritual and Transformative Dimensions
49:50 • 6min
Negotiation, Consent, and Community Protocols
56:08 • 5min
Trauma, Empowerment, and Reenactment
01:01:25 • 4min
Psychological Reflection Versus Recreational Play
01:05:55 • 2min
Personal Impact: Soul, Beauty, and Loss
01:08:25 • 3min
Death, Shamanism, and Edge Experiences
01:11:31 • 4min
Outro
01:15:45 • 15sec
#35211
Confessions of a mask
Yukio Mishima
'Confessions of a Mask' is a semi-autobiographical novel that explores themes of homosexuality, alienation, and the conflict between societal expectations and personal desires.
The story follows Kochan, a young man who struggles to accept his homosexual identity in post-war Japan.
He crafts a facade of normalcy, hiding his true self behind a 'mask' to conform to societal expectations.
The novel delves into Kochan's inner turmoil, his fascination with violence and death, and his complex relationships with others.
'Confessions of a Mask' is a powerful exploration of identity, sexuality, and the search for authenticity.
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Psychopathia sexualis
Richard von Krafft-Ebing
Published in 1886, 'Psychopathia Sexualis' is one of the earliest and most influential texts on sexual pathology.
The book, written by Richard von Krafft-Ebing, combines Karl Heinrich Ulrichs' 'Urning' theory with Bénédict Morel's theory of social degeneration.
It introduces terms such as 'sadism' and 'masochism' and discusses a wide range of paraphilias.
The work had a significant impact on continental European forensic psychiatry in the early 20th century and is regarded as a landmark in the history of psychopathology.
It was initially intended for medical and legal practitioners but gained broader public attention due to its sexually explicit content.
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Ordinary Men
Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland
Christopher R. Browning
This book by Christopher R. Browning examines the actions of Reserve Police Battalion 101, a unit of the German Order Police, during World War II. The battalion was responsible for mass shootings and round-ups of Jewish people for deportation to Nazi death camps in Poland in 1942.
Browning argues that the men of this unit were not fanatical Nazis but ordinary middle-aged, working-class men who committed these atrocities due to group dynamics of conformity, deference to authority, role adaptation, and the altering of moral norms.
The book is based on postwar interrogations of former members of the battalion and provides a detailed and chilling glimpse into how ordinary men were transformed into active participants in the Holocaust.
#25510
• Mentioned in 2 episodes
The Deep Psychology of BDSM and Kink
Douglas Thomas
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• Mentioned in 6 episodes
The Murderer Next Door
Why the Mind Is Designed to Kill
David Buss
In 'The Murderer Next Door', David M. Buss presents a bold new general theory of homicide from an evolutionary psychology perspective.
The book delves into the underlying motives and circumstances of murders, from serial killers to ordinary individuals who commit homicide.
Buss argues that the human psyche has evolved specialized adaptations whose function is to kill, and he explains the high-risk situations that can push anyone over the edge.
The book features gripping storytelling about specific murder cases and includes findings from extensive studies, including an investigation of homicidal fantasies and detailed analyses of murder data.
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Dark Arrows
Thomas Moore
#50839
The Sailor Who Fell from Grace with the Sea
Yukio Mishima
In this episode of The Sacred Speaks, we explore what it means to embrace the full range of our humanity — including shadow, aggression, sexuality, contradiction, and desire — not as something to be corrected, but as something that longs to be understood.
My guest, Dr. Douglas Thomas, joins me for a wide-ranging and thoughtful conversation about BDSM and kink through the lens of depth psychology. Rather than approaching these practices as pathology or spectacle, Douglas invites us to see them as symbolic, archetypal expressions of the psyche — places where power, surrender, ritual, and imagination reveal what we most often exile from consciousness.
Together, we explore why sexuality and kink function as cultural “third rails,” why moral rigidity so often masks unconscious shadow, and how ordinary people can participate in extraordinary harm when disowned material is projected outward. This conversation moves beyond questions of “good” and “bad” and instead asks what wholeness actually requires of us — personally, culturally, and spiritually.
At its heart, this episode is an invitation into a more courageous ethic: facing the darkness within so that we reduce hatred, loosen moral certainty, and relate to ourselves and one another with greater honesty, humility, and compassion.
👉 Key Takeaways
Wholeness matters more than appearing morally “good.” Denying our darker impulses fuels projection, rigidity, and violence.
Projection is largely unconscious, which is why “ordinary” people can participate in extraordinary harm while believing they are righteous.
Sexuality and kink operate as cultural shadows, exposing fear, shame, and control dynamics we often refuse to confront directly.
Cultivating curiosity instead of certainty around our shadow opens space for intimacy, ethical responsibility, and collective healing.
Episode Timeline
(00:00) — Introduction and orientation
(00:46) — Announcements and resources
(03:50) — Introducing Dr. Douglas Thomas
(05:36) — Douglas’ background and personal journey
(11:31) — Entering the leather community
(14:44) — Masculinity and hyper-masculinity
(23:39) — Transgressive necessities and psychological wholeness
(32:37) — Sexuality, kink, and cultural taboos
(36:27) — The complexity of kissing and biting
(37:37) — Historical context of sexual disorders
(39:35) — Fetishes and their psychological meaning
(40:30) — Defining healthy and unhealthy sexual behaviors
(42:52) — Introducing kink and BDSM
(46:44) — The Theatricality of BDSM
BDSM as embodied theater — where ritual, archetype, and imagination shape experience.
(49:47) — Spiritual and Transformative Dimensions
Erotic intensity as a doorway into altered states, presence, and transformation.
(56:29) — Negotiation and Consent
Consent as sacred contract — how boundaries and negotiation create safety and depth.
(01:01:15) — Trauma and Empowerment
Moving beyond simplistic narratives to explore reenactment, reclamation, and integration.
(01:08:06) — Personal Reflections and Broader Implications
What this work has revealed personally — and what it offers our wider culture.
Connect with Dr. Douglas Thomas
Website https://www.drdouglasthomas.com/
Practice (Jungian-based psychotherapy, Pasadena, CA): https://www.drdouglasthomas.com/abou
Check out the book “The Deep Psychology of BDSM and Kink: Jungian and Archetypal Perspectives on the Soul’s Transgressive Necessities – https://www.drdouglasthomas.com/book
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