E139: Deanna Okun-Nachoff knows what's missing from Canada's immigration discourse

In the last episode of 2025, I’m chatting with Deanna Okun-Nachoff, an immigration lawyer and host of the Borderlines Podcast, about where Canada’s immigration system stands six months into the Carney government.

Any sense of accountability by the government for where we are today with immigration has been largely absent from the raging public debate. The now-infamous “come to study or work, come to stay” messaging was pushed hard at some point.

And it worked. Hundreds of thousands of temporary residents moved to Canada with the intention of earning permanent residency. Now, the government can’t fulfil those promises for some very obvious reasons. Yet, the blame for everything wrong with the process through which these folks came into the country has landed squarely on their shoulders.

The big question I hope this episode helps kickstart is: What kind of nation do we want to build? And are the decisions we make going forward grounded in those values?

Deanna believes that whatever path Canada chooses, it must be fundamentally grounded in being upfront, truthful, direct, fair, and accountable.

Deanna and I also talk about:

• The TikTokification of immigration narratives

• The exhausting policy whiplash of the past 20 months

• Why she thinks public trust has collapsed

• Why she thinks good, fair, humane decision making is expensive