Journalist James Risen discusses Sen. Frank Church's investigation of CIA misdeeds, including assassination plots, LSD mind-control experiments, and spying on Americans. The podcast explores the Church Committee hearings, the controversial MK Ultra program, the transformation of the CIA after 9/11, the Discord leak controversy, and the importance of in-depth reporting on national security and intelligence institutions.
The Church Committee's investigations and reforms led to the establishment of permanent intelligence oversight, including the creation of the Senate Intelligence Committee and the passing of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA).
The press's handling of leaks raises ethical concerns and highlights the need for a more balanced approach to data journalism that prioritizes the public interest while protecting sources and ensuring confidentiality.
Deep dives
Frank Church's Motivation and Background
Frank Church, a liberal Democrat from Idaho, led the Senate committee in 1975 that investigated CIA covert activities, including assassinations, spying on Americans, and mind control. Church became radicalized by the Vietnam War and saw the intelligence community as a part of a growing militaristic empire. He wanted to be the first to conduct oversight and expose the intelligence community's rogue actions. At the time, there was no oversight, and leaders of Congress didn't want to be responsible for knowing any secrets. Church's goal was to create permanent intelligence oversight, and the Church Committee's investigations led to significant reforms and changes in laws, including the creation of the Senate Intelligence Committee, FISA, the ban on political assassinations, and banning the use of journalists by intelligence agencies. The Church Committee investigations revealed bizarre stories, such as CIA's collaboration with the mafia to kill Fidel Castro and the CIA's MK Ultra mind control program.
Frank Church's Accomplishments and Reforms
The Church Committee's primary accomplishment was setting the stage for the creation of permanent intelligence oversight, leading to the establishment of the Senate Intelligence Committee. They also played a role in passing the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA), which brought national security eavesdropping under the rule of law. Other major consequences include the passage of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act and changes in executive orders governing the CIA and the intelligence community. The Committee's investigations and reforms fundamentally changed the culture of the intelligence community, making them accountable to laws and regulations. However, it's important to note that despite the reforms, the CIA still violates those rules and conducts illicit activities.
Current Challenges and the State of Oversight
Current oversight of the intelligence community faces challenges due to governmental secrecy, partisan politics, and leaks. The Senate Intelligence Committee's investigation into CIA torture after 9/11 faced resistance, highlighted by the CIA spying on committee members. The press's handling of leaks also raises concerns, with a growing disconnect between data journalism and dealing with sources confidentially. The ability to conduct hearings like the Church Committee's in the current climate is unlikely due to partisan rancor and the lack of bipartisan support. Intelligence agencies continue to engage in surveillance and other questionable activities, despite rules and regulations in place.
Ethical Concerns and Leak Handling
The press's handling of leaks, like the recent Discord leak, raises ethical concerns. While the information from leaks can be in the public interest, the way the press discredited the leaker, exposed their identity, and cooperated with authorities was questionable. It showcased a change in journalism, prioritizing data journalism and internet scraping over protecting sources and building relationships. Understanding sources' motivations, building trust, and ensuring confidentiality are crucial for responsible reporting. There is a need for a more balanced approach that prioritizes the public interest while respecting the rights and well-being of those who provide leaked information.
Journalist James Risen speaks with Jeff Stein about his new book on Sen. Frank Church’s unprecedented investigation of CIA misdeeds, from assassination plots to LSD mind-control experiments to spying on Americans.