Episode 37. Interview2: Matt.  In this episode Ulland and Jo invite Jo’s good friend Matt to a conversation. Matt skips the “pleasantries,” willingly jumping into the deep end. He shares the importance of healthy adults, particularly when our own parents are struggling emotionally. He discusses how people in their suffering unintentionally cause suffering in others, which leads to a discussion of how it can be difficult to grieve loss because the common assumption that we must also be angry. We discussed how participants in 12 step programs helped Matt, as a child, makes sense of his experiences. Ulland and Jo answer Matt’s question about what we think would useful for ministers to know form a therapist’s point of view. Jo ties the conversation into core concepts that have been reviewed in previous podcast episodes.