When Physics Gets Rid of Time and Quantum Theory | Julian Barbour
Apr 29, 2025
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Julian Barbour, a British physicist renowned for his innovative ideas on time and shape dynamics, explores mind-bending concepts about the universe. He argues that time might be an illusion, suggesting we rethink quantum mechanics without traditional principles. Barbour introduces a relational perspective, emphasizing ratios over conventional notions of space and time. He delves into the significance of shapes in existence, challenging established views and urging a holistic understanding of reality and consciousness.
Julian Barbour challenges the notion of quantum mechanics, suggesting it may be replaced by a framework focused on ratios and relationships between particles.
The podcast discusses the idea that traditional rules governing entropy may not apply universally, prompting a reevaluation of time's progression.
Consciousness is presented as a lens through which we perceive physical phenomena, raising questions about the continuity of time and movement.
The introduction of 'variety' as a new measure highlights the complexity and structural richness of the universe's evolving configurations.
Deep dives
The Nutritional Benefits of Huel
Huel's Black Edition Ready to Drink is highlighted as a convenient meal replacement option that is nutritionally complete. It contains 35 grams of protein and 27 essential vitamins and minerals while maintaining low sugar levels. The speaker shares personal experiences where Huel has been particularly beneficial during busy days filled with recording and editing tasks. This allows for a quick and healthy solution without the need for meal prep, making it an ideal choice for those on the go.
Challenging Quantum Mechanics
The idea is presented that quantum mechanics may not exist in the traditional sense, proposing instead that it is a manifestation of classical physics not yet recognized. This perspective stems from a recent discovery in Newton's gravity, which suggests that the universe is fundamentally based on the relationships between particles rather than conventional quantum concepts. By introducing an alternative form of dynamics called shape dynamics, the speaker implies that the complexity of the universe can be explained through the ratios of particle shapes, rather than relying on wave functions or quantum states. This radical shift invites a reevaluation of foundational assumptions in physics.
Entropy and Time's Arrow
The relationship between entropy and the direction of time is assessed, noting that traditional explanations often rely on systems confined within a box. It is argued that if the universe is not confined, the conventional rules governing entropy may not apply in the same way, potentially leading to an infinite variety of configurations and structures. This perspective challenges the notion of a past hypothesis, suggesting that time's progression and entropy's behavior require a reevaluation beyond established thermodynamic laws. Such a view opens new avenues for understanding how the universe evolves without succumbing to the heat death scenario.
The Nature of Consciousness and Experience
The discussion touches on consciousness as the lens through which we experience reality, emphasizing that physical phenomena may be merely snapshots perceived by our consciousness rather than continuous motion. The analogy of motion in film is used to illustrate how our perception interprets static images as fluid experiences. This notion questions the fundamental nature of time, suggesting that what we perceive as changing is merely a series of distinct moments experienced sequentially. The implications of this viewpoint extend to our understanding of existence, motion, and variety in the universe.
Variety as a Fundamental Quantity
A new quantity called 'variety' is introduced as a measure of the complexity and structural richness of arrangements in the universe. This concept captures the essence of relational dynamics between particles and offers explanations for various physical phenomena. For instance, the evolution of structures in the universe, such as galaxies and stars, could be seen as an increase in variety over time rather than a product of existing forces alone. This perspective implies that the development of increasingly complex configurations is fundamental to understanding cosmic evolution.
The Role of Geometry in Understanding the Universe
Geometry is framed as a critical aspect of experiencing and understanding the universe, where shapes and distances play an essential role in theoretical physics. The speaker discusses how classical mathematics, particularly in terms of Euclidean geometry, has shaped our interpretation of physical relationships in a universe described by three dimensions. By revisiting concepts from classical theorists, such as Poincaré, the author emphasizes the potential limitations of modern assumptions about spatial relationships and matter. This inquiry raises the question of whether our geometric frameworks are fundamentally sound or if they need reformation to better reflect cosmic realities.
Consciousness and Physical Reality
The influence of consciousness is reinforced as a determining factor in how we categorize and understand physical events and entities. The dialogue explores how consciousness seems to create interpretations of complex structures, such as those in nature, and generates different levels of awareness, from simple perceptions to intricate experiences. This perception is linked to scientific inquiry, allowing for distinctions in understanding the universe and its myriad complexities. Finally, the idea posits that, while we witness tangible existence, the essence of variety, shaped by conscious experience, drives our comprehension of reality.
What if quantum mechanics is not fundamental? What if time itself is an illusion? In this new episode, physicist Julian Barbour returns to share his most radical ideas yet. He proposes that the universe is built purely from ratios, that time is not fundamental, and that quantum mechanics might be replaced entirely without the need for wave functions or Planck’s constant. This may be the simplest vision of reality ever proposed.
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Videos Mentioned:
Julian’s previous appearance on TOE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bprxrGaf0Os
Neil Turok on TOE (Big Bang): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUp9x44N3uE
Neil Turok on TOE (Black Holes): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNZCa1pVE20
Debunking “All Possible Paths”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcY3ZtgYis0
John Vervaeke on TOE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVj1KYGyesI
Jacob Barandes & Scott Aaronson on TOE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rbC3XZr9-c
The Dark History of Anti-Gravity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBA3RUxkZdc
Peter Woit on TOE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTSeqsCgxj8
Books Mentioned:
The Monadology – G.W. Leibniz: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1546527664
The Janus Point – Julian Barbour: https://www.amazon.ca/dp/0465095461
Reflections on the Motive Power of Heat – Carnot: https://www.amazon.ca/dp/1514873974
Lucretius: On the Nature of Things: https://www.amazon.ca/dp/0393341364
Heisenberg and the Interpretation of QM: https://www.amazon.ca/dp/1107403510
Quantum Mechanics for Cosmologists: https://books.google.ca/books?id=qou0iiLPjyoC&pg=PA99
Faraday, Maxwell, and the EM Field: https://www.amazon.ca/dp/1616149426
The Feeling of Life Itself – Christof Koch: https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B08BTCX4BM
Articles Mentioned:
Time’s Arrow and Simultaneity (Barbour): https://arxiv.org/pdf/2211.14179
On the Moving Force of Heat (Clausius): https://sites.pitt.edu/~jdnorton/teaching/2559_Therm_Stat_Mech/docs/Clausius%20Moving%20Force%20heat%201851.pdf
On the Motions and Collisions of Elastic Spheres (Maxwell): http://www.alternativaverde.it/stel/documenti/Maxwell/1860/Maxwell%20%281860%29%20-%20Illustrations%20of%20the%20dynamical%20theory%20of%20gases.pdf
Maxwell–Boltzmann distribution (Wikipedia): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwell–Boltzmann_distribution
Identification of a Gravitational Arrow of Time: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1409.0917
The Nature of Time: https://arxiv.org/pdf/0903.3489
The Solution to the Problem of Time in Shape Dynamics: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1302.6264
CPT-Symmetric Universe: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1803.08928
Mach’s Principle and Dynamical Theories (JSTOR): https://www.jstor.org/stable/2397395
Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction
01:35 Consciousness and the Nature of Reality
3:23 The Nature of Time and Change
7:01 The Role of Variety in Existence
9:23 Understanding Entropy and Temperature
36:10 Revisiting the Second Law of Thermodynamics
41:33 The Illusion of Entropy in the Universe
46:11 Rethinking the Past Hypothesis
55:03 Complexity, Order, and Newton's Influence
1:02:33 Evidence Beyond Quantum Mechanics
1:16:04 Age and Structure of the Universe
1:18:53 Open Universe and Ratios
1:20:15 Fundamental Particles and Ratios
1:24:20 Emergence of Structure in Age
1:27:11 Shapes and Their Explanations
1:32:54 Life and Variety in the Universe
1:44:27 Consciousness and Perception of Structure
1:57:22 Geometry, Experience, and Forces
2:09:27 The Role of Consciousness in Shape Dynamics
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