66. Rafael Pérez y Pérez: Story Machines, Creative AI, and Mexian serenades

Feb 5, 2023

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Rafael Pérez y Pérez is a professor at the Universidad Autónoma Metropolitana, Cuajimalpa, where he studies computational creativity, in particular in relation to computer programs that can write stories. In this conversation, we talk about MEXICA, the story generator he has been working on for most of his career, his newly released book Story Machines (with Mike Sharples), the advantages and disadvantages of different approaches to creating stories with AI, what the future holds, whether large companies like Amazon are working on these topics, and much more.

BJKS Podcast is a podcast about neuroscience, psychology, and anything vaguely related, hosted by Benjamin James Kuper-Smith. You can find the podcast on all podcasting platforms (e.g., Spotify, Apple/Google Podcasts, etc.).

Support the show: https://www.patreon.com/bjks_podcast

Timestamps
00:05: How Rafael ended up doing his PhD on artificial creativity in Sussex
07:00: Why did Rafael create MEXICA? / A more human system for generating stories
24:45: Many approaches of generating stories
30:46: Is a combination of symbolic and connectionist approaches (neuro-symbolic AI) the solution to creating machines that write stories?
33:23: Why might GPT-3 not work for stories or The risk of singing a Mexican sereneade to a Norwegian
43:38: Are there fundamental barries for AI writing convincing fiction without actually living in the real world?
47:54: Is Amazon developing AI to write fiction?
53:59: What will happen in the next 5-10 years of AI writing stories?

Podcast links

Website: https://geni.us/bjks-pod
Twitter: https://geni.us/bjks-pod-twt

Rafael's links

Website: https://geni.us/perez-web
Google Scholar: https://geni.us/perez-scholar
Twitter: https://geni.us/perez-twt

Ben's links

Website: https://geni.us/bjks-web
Google Scholar: https://geni.us/bjks-scholar
Twitter: https://geni.us/bjks-twt

References and links

Chat GPT: https://openai.com/blog/chatgpt/

Mnih, Kavukcuoglu, Silver, ... & Hassabis (2015). Human-level control through deep reinforcement learning. Nature.
Mueller (1990). Daydreaming in humans and machines: a computer model of the stream of thought. Intellect Books.
Pérez y Pérez & Sharples (2004). Three computer-based models of storytelling: BRUTUS, MINSTREL and MEXICA. Knowledge-based systems.
Propp (1968). Morphology of the Folktale. University of Texas Press.
Sharples & Pérez y Pérez (2022). Story Machines: How Computers Have Become Creative Writers. Routledge.
Sharples & Pérez y Pérez (2023). Introduction to narrative generators. Oxford University Press
Turner (1993). MINSTREL: A computer model of creativity and storytelling, PhD Dissertation, University of California LA.