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Theories of Everything with Curt Jaimungal
Carlo Rovelli on Consciousness, the Illusion of Time, Loop Quantum Gravity, & Philosophy of Relational Quantum Mechanics
Dec 17, 2021
03:59:10
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Quick takeaways
- Properties in quantum mechanics are relational, existing in the context of interactions between systems.
- The many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics is seen as less useful and with little added value.
- Laws in physics are descriptions of regularities and patterns, not inherent in the universe.
- Time is considered an organizing principle of happenings rather than a static entity.
- Reality varies depending on the context and attempting to find an ultimate reality can lead to confusion.
Deep dives
The Relation Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics
In this podcast episode, Carlo Rovelli discusses the idea that relations are more fundamental than the things themselves. He explores the concept of the relational interpretation of quantum mechanics, which suggests that properties are relative and only exist in the context of interactions between systems. Rovelli argues that all properties are relational and that the standard textbook presentation of quantum mechanics, which includes observers and measurement apparatus, is incomplete. He proposes that every time two systems interact, they exchange information and create measurement outcomes relative to each other. This interpretation challenges the notion of an objective reality with fixed properties and instead focuses on the relational nature of the universe.
The Many Worlds Interpretation and the Limitations of Language
The podcast touches on the many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics, which suggests that our universe is just one branch of a larger quantum wave function that includes multiple parallel universes. However, Rovelli expresses his reservation towards this interpretation, believing it to be less useful and with little added value. He also delves into the limitations of language, discussing how even everyday language can be misleading when trying to describe the complexities of reality. Rovelli suggests that mathematics, although a powerful tool, also has limitations and requires interpretation and connection to our experience and observations in order to accurately describe reality.
The Nature of Laws and their Relationship to the Universe
Rovelli explains that laws in physics are simply descriptions of regularities and patterns that we observe in the world. They are not inherent in the universe but rather reflect our understanding of how things behave predictably. He notes that there is a distinction between the predictable aspects of the world, which can be described by laws, and the unpredictable aspects that fall outside of our current scientific knowledge. Rovelli emphasizes that laws are not separate from the universe but rather our attempt to make sense of the regularities we observe, while acknowledging the vast amount of the universe that remains unpredictable.
The Nature of Time
The podcast episode explores different perspectives on the nature of time, including the concept of time as an organizing principle of happenings rather than as a static entity.
Distinguishing the Past and the Future
There is a disagreement among the speakers regarding the fundamental distinction between the past and the future. One viewpoint argues that the distinction is intrinsic and profound, while the other argues that it emerges only at the statistical level due to entropy.
Critique of Various Models
The podcast discusses the critiques of different models, such as the hypographic model, the many-worlds interpretation, and a timelessly distributed probability model. These critiques focus on the need for a comprehensive and holistic approach that considers the complexities of quantum mechanics and general relativity.
Different Contexts of Reality
Reality is a complex concept that varies depending on the context in which it is used. The speaker emphasizes the need to understand that reality can have different meanings depending on the situation. For instance, in the context of a book or a play, what is real is what is written or portrayed. In the context of history, what is real is what can be confirmed based on evidence. The speaker cautions against trying to find an ultimate reality beyond different contexts, as it can lead to confusion and misunderstandings.
Quantum Gravity and the Notion of Time
The speaker discusses the relationship between time and quantum gravity. In the context of fundamental quantum gravity theory, the concept of time becomes irrelevant. Time is seen as a classical approximation that emerges in the description of space-time at large scales. At the fundamental level, the theory focuses on relationships between different variables describing the gravitational and quantum fields. The speaker highlights the need to move away from traditional notions of time and instead focus on processes and probabilities to understand phenomena in quantum gravity.
Theoretical Physics and Idealism
Carlo Rovelli discusses the relationship between theoretical physics and idealism. He explains that science does not presuppose any specific metaphysical framework and focuses on the method rather than the nature of reality. Rovelli argues that science allows us to construct narratives and explanations, including the emergence of mental states and the physical universe. He suggests that while idealism can propose regularities in mental states, it does not provide a complete story for the relationship between the mental and the physical.
Consciousness, Psychedelics, and Reality
Carlo Rovelli shares his thoughts on consciousness, psychedelics, and reality. He explains that he does not believe in a hard problem of consciousness, as the conceivability of philosophical zombies does not imply the existence of a separate consciousness beyond the physical. Rovelli reflects on his psychedelic experiences, noting their profound impact on his perception of reality but highlighting that they did not directly contribute to his scientific work. He emphasizes the importance of physics in understanding the world and sees coherence between different levels of descriptions, including physics, biology, and psychology.
60.
Question Number Two - What Is Carlo Rovelli's View Regarding Quantum Principle of Relativity?
6min
YouTube link: https://youtu.be/r_fUPbBNmBw
Sponsors: https://brilliant.org/TOE for 20% off. For Algo's podcast https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9IfRw1QaTglRoX0sN11AQQ and website https://www.algo.com/.
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iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/better-left-unsaid-with-curt-jaimungal/id1521758802
Pandora: https://pdora.co/33b9lfP
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4gL14b92xAErofYQA7bU4e
Subreddit r/TheoriesOfEverything: https://reddit.com/r/theoriesofeverything
LINKS MENTIONED (affiliate links for books):
-The Order of Time by Carlo Rovelli: https://amzn.to/3ISZYo7
-The Master and His Emissary by Iain McGilchrist: https://amzn.to/325VKso
-Stephon Alexander's "Fear of a Black Universe": https://amzn.to/3seSpTb
-Conversations on Quantum Gravity: https://amzn.to/3dXtafH
-Quantum principle of relativity: https://arxiv.org/abs/1910.02780
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00:00 Introduction
00:03:27 The relational interpretation of quantum mechanics
00:12:29 Why is there consistency in the world?
00:16:35 How can "relationships" be more fundamental than "things"?
00:24:05 Visualizing the relations
00:33:43 Philosophy and physics (why modern physicists are philosophobic)
00:45:11 Definition of the "Universe" (does physical law stand "outside" the universe?)
00:51:06 The problems with the concept of "Universe"
00:56:00 Many Worlds (why Carlo doesn't like this interpretation)
01:00:40 Mathematics alone isn't sufficient ("between reality and math, there's a gap")
01:06:13 It's not false to say the Sun revolves around the Earth
01:08:45 An ecumenical approach to understanding the Universe and religions
01:15:29 Anti-foundationalism has taken over philosophy
01:20:04 Entropic Time / Thermal Time (illusion of time)
01:38:18 Lee Smolin's view on time (that time is the MOST real quantity)
01:48:26 Julian Barbour's theory of time
01:56:00 Thoughts on Wolfram's model
02:05:08 Thoughts on Sean Carole's Many Worlds
02:14:08 Donald Hoffman (and briefly Eric Weinstein)
02:22:04 What do we mean by "real"? (Wittgenstein's language games)
02:28:09 Does there exist what lies outside your knowledge?
02:32:25 "Philosophy is a cure against wrong questions"
02:43:11 Information paradox is like "falling in love with holography" (based in dogma)
02:50:23 Does learning math / physics get easier with age or harder?
02:51:33 What Carlo would have done differently in developing LQG?
02:53:27 [Stephon Alexander] How does time play into Quantum Gravity?
02:55:48 [Bernardo Kastrup] How does Carlo's view of "relations" not lead to an infinite regress?
03:00:43 Idealism vs Materialism (science doesn't presume a metaphysic)
03:12:33 Hard Problem of Consciousness is a "confusion"
03:17:36 Forget about Philosophical Zombies -- Think Philosophical Babies
01:38:29 [Nikhil Ns] Quantum principle of relativity
03:23:53 [goodsirknight] Carlo's LSD experience and the satori moment's influence on LQG
03:34:25 [Aaron Heidari] Alfred North Whitehead
03:38:13 We don't need new ideas for quantum gravity
* * *
Just wrapped (April 2021) a documentary called Better Left Unsaid http://betterleftunsaidfilm.com on the topic of "when does the left go too far?" Visit that site if you'd like to watch it.
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