Ta-Nehisi Coates on Bridging Gaps vs. Drawing Lines

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Sep 28, 2025

Ta-Nehisi Coates, a Pulitzer Prize-winning writer renowned for his insights on race and politics, engages in a thought-provoking dialogue about the implications of political strategies and moral boundaries. He critiques Ezra Klein's response to Charlie Kirk's controversial legacy, arguing that hate has become a potent political force. Coates emphasizes the need to respect individuals while drawing moral lines and discusses the importance of coalition-building for progressives. The conversation also explores how to effectively engage hostile audiences and the responsibilities of writers in today's political landscape.

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INSIGHT

Grief As A Political Gesture

Ezra Klein felt immediate empathy and chose to grieve publicly with Charlie Kirk's supporters in the assassination's aftermath.
He argues such gestures can temporarily cool political violence and hold community together.

INSIGHT

Hate As A Political Engine

Ta-Nehisi Coates warns hate is a powerful political unifier and explains Kirk harnessed it.
He contends acknowledging hate's force explains why those politics win even when morally repugnant.

INSIGHT

Retreat From Coalition Building

Ezra argues the left has retreated from bridge-building and written many voters off as irredeemable.
He links that retreat to strategic losses and weakening political competition.

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The writer Ta-Nehisi Coates was harshly critical of my response to Charlie Kirk’s assassination. In an article in Vanity Fair, he suggested I was whitewashing Kirk’s legacy, comparing it to the whitewashing of the Southern cause after the Civil War.

So I wanted to have Coates on the show to talk out our disagreement, as well as some deeper questions that I think exist underneath it about the work of politics.

What should the left do about the fact that so many Americans share Kirk’s views? What kinds of disagreements should we try to bridge? When is that work moral and necessary, and when is it a betrayal?

This episode contains strong language.

Mentioned:

“Charlie Kirk, Redeemed: A Political Class Finds Its Lost Cause” by Ta-Nehisi Coates

Between the World and Me by Ta-Nehisi Coates

“My President Was Black” by Ta-Nehisi Coates

Book Recommendations:

The Brothers by Stephen Kinzer

Race and Reunion by David W. Blight

The Sirens’ Call by Chris Hayes

Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

You can find the transcript and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html

This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Mary Marge Locker. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Marie Cascione, Annie Galvin, Kristin Lin, Jack McCordick, Marina King and Jan Kobal. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. Transcript editing by Sarah Murphy. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.

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