Right There With You Hell, Whiteness, and the Myth of Punishment: A Conversation with Tamice Spencer-Helms & Brian Recker
What if God was never a punisher—and hell was never the point?
In this powerful episode of Right There With You, hosts Cass Cooper and Ciarra Jones sit down with public theologians Tamice Spencer-Helms (Faith Unleavened) and Brian Recker (Hell Bent) to explore how fear, whiteness, and Christian supremacy have shaped American Christianity and the spiritual lives of millions.
Together, they unpack:
- How hell theology produces fear, shame, and control
- Why a punitive view of God leads to a punitive society
- The role of whiteness in shaping Christian identity, belonging, and power
- What it means to be Black, queer, and spiritually rooted outside colonized faith
- How to heal from religious trauma and rebuild spirituality in love
- Why restorative justice aligns more with Jesus than fear-based salvation
- The wilderness between Trayvon Martin and George Floyd—and what liberation looks like after loss
This conversation is tender, challenging, funny, and liberating. It’s for anyone navigating deconstruction, exvangelical healing, racial justice, queerness, parenting, divorce, co-parenting, or redefining their relationship to God.
If you’ve ever feared hell, questioned God’s love, or felt pushed out of church spaces—you’re right there with us.
Featured Guests
Tamice Spencer-Helms
Author of Faith Unleavened: The Wilderness Between Trayvon Martin & George Floyd
Founder, theologian, cultural critic, and co-creator of The Ember Gathering, a post-evangelical liberation event.
Brian Recker
Author of Hell Bent: How the Fear of Hell Holds Christians Back from a Spirituality of Love
Former evangelical pastor, restorative justice advocate, and co-founder of The Ember Gathering.
🌿 Find Cass & Ciarra Online
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✨ Cass: iamcasscooper.com | TikTok @just_cass2.0
✨ Ciarra: ciarajonesconsulting.com | TikTok @thegardeningtheologian