The Wood-wide Web and Do Plants Feel Pain? - forest ecologist Justine Karst - Sentientism 220

Jan 25, 2025

Justine Karst, an Associate Professor at the University of Alberta and President of the International Mycorrhiza Society, dives into the fascinating world of mycorrhizal networks. She explores the ‘Wood Wide Web,’ explaining how trees communicate and share resources through fungi. The discussion highlights the ethical dimensions of our relationship with nature, questioning if plants can feel pain. Justine also reflects on her upbringing and the influence of faith, advocating for a deeper understanding of interconnectedness and our moral responsibilities toward all sentient beings.

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ANECDOTE

Childhood and Religion

Justine Karst's parents left the Catholic church, but her grandparents encouraged religious exposure.
Karst found church stories fascinating but lacked opportunities for questions, sparking curiosity.

question_answer

ANECDOTE

He-Man and Evolution

Karst debated evolution with her cousin, arguing He-Man had the same muscle count, just more developed.
This led to a discussion about ape-like ancestors, causing conflict with her grandma.

insights

INSIGHT

Naturalistic Approach

A naturalistic approach requires open-mindedness, even to strange ideas.
Evidence should guide belief, not the other way around.

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Exploring the 'Wood Wide Web' and Belief Systems

02:48 • 19min

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The Mycorrhizal Connection

21:22 • 15min

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Decoding the Wood Wide Web Narrative

36:47 • 14min

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Exploring the Mysteries of Mycorrhizal Networks

50:57 • 2min

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Ethics and Interconnectedness in Nature

53:05 • 8min

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Sentientism and Ethical Complexity

01:01:27 • 19min

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Reflecting on Creating a Better World Through Personal Growth

01:20:37 • 2min

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Navigating Science and Values for a Sustainable Future

01:22:22 • 11min

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Finding the Mother Tree

Suzanne Simard

In 'Finding the Mother Tree,' Suzanne Simard combines her personal narrative with scientific insights to reveal the complex, interdependent relationships within forest ecosystems. The book highlights her research on the 'Wood Wide Web,' a network of mycorrhizal fungi that connects trees, allowing them to share nutrients and information. Simard also shares her personal journey, including her upbringing in the rainforests of British Columbia, her struggles within the male-dominated logging industry, and her groundbreaking experiments that challenge conventional wisdom about forest ecology. The book emphasizes the cooperative nature of trees, particularly the role of 'Mother Trees' as hubs in these networks, and explores the implications of this research for sustainable forestry and combating climate change.

The Secret Life of Bees

Sue Monk Kidd

Set in South Carolina during 1964, 'The Secret Life of Bees' tells the story of fourteen-year-old Lily Owens, whose life is shaped by the blurred memory of her mother's death. After her nanny, Rosaleen, is arrested for insulting racists, Lily and Rosaleen escape to Tiburon, South Carolina, in search of a new life. They are taken in by three black beekeeping sisters—August, May, and June—who worship the Black Madonna. The novel explores themes of mothers, love, conviction, and forgiveness as Lily navigates her past, her prejudices, and her newfound sense of belonging. It is a powerful story about the healing power of love and the divinity of the female spirit.

Justine Karst is Associate Professor at the University of Alberta in Canada. As an ecologist she studies the mycorrhizal ecology of forests. She is an Associate Editor for the Journal of Ecology and President of the International Mycorrhiza Society.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the most important questions: “what’s real?”, “who matters?” and "how can we make a better world?"

Sentientism answers those questions with "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

00:00 Clips

01:13 Welcome

- Justine on the Many Minds podcast

- The #woodwideweb

03:45 Justine's Intro

- "I'm pretty into mycorrhizas"

04:30 What's Real?

- #catholic parents "they both left the church when they got married"

- Raised in a non-religious home

- Summers with grand-parents who felt "we need to get a healthy dose of religion because we were missing it from all the other months of the year"

- "I was and I still am a very curious, curious kid... I was really fascinated by a lot of the [church] stories and the rituals... but there was no time for asking questions."

- Bible stories "some of them are extraordinary - they don't always make sense to a kids mind or an adult mind"

- Dad "the Spock in the family", mum an artist

- Cousins mostly religious. An argument at ~10 yrs old about evolution and whether He Man has more muscles than Justine :) "No - he has the same number of muscles as me - they're just more developed"

- Getting in trouble with grandma for telling cousins we evolved "from something ape-like"

- "I'm not somebody that ever talks somebody out of their faith... not anti-religion... I deeply respect people's values and beliefs and faith even though it's different... I find it very easy to co-exist with people who do have a faith."

- Enjoying good faith conversations with religious people about nature "I really appreciated how he would give me space to ask questions"

- "I'm not religious, I don't believe there's a god, but I am totally open to being wrong about that."

- "I practice science with a small 's'... I am someone who loves an elegant experiment tied to field observations - that's what I'm here for."

- "Some people could say that I'm a reductionist... reduction is kind of a dirty word... but I can kind of live with it."

- "There's definitely been some events in my life that do make me pause... is there something else going on here?"... coincidences vs. something else? 52:30 What and Who Matters?

01:19:15 How to Make a Better World?

01:28:40 Follow Justine:

- Justine’s Karst Lab

- Justine on BlueSky

- Justine on Twitter “I kind of abandoned that account… I just got tired of the ads and the crappy algorithm”. JW: “That platform almost now seems to be an attempt to destroy public epistemology and ethics – almost the antithesis of what we’re trying to do with this [Sentientism] worldview.”

And more... full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

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